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Several years ago (shortly after I first became aware of the Griffin & Howe research website), I called and spoke with their historian (Bob Beach), and I asked him how many of the records/serial number were listed on the website as compared to what they actually have. His answer to me was “most of the serial numbers in the various record books were not yet listed”. I asked if they intended list all of them, and his reply is while it would be nice to do so, he is a “one man show”, and did not have the time to dedicate to updating the list. I did get him to send me copies of a few pages out of one of the record books from the 1930s, specifically for the Model 55 and Model 65 (neither one of which is listed in the drop down menu box to search for a serial number). After speaking with him for 20-minutes or so, I was left with the impression that they have thousands of recorded serial numbers that are not listed on their website page. I would truly like to get my hands (eyes) on all of the records they have.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Did someone yell, “Jackpot”? Not so.
Bob Beach the archivist for Griffin & Howe sent me the following email today:
I regret that the Winchester rifle. . .that is in the A&F records is for a Winchester model 70 rather than a model 1894. Actually, I never included the lever action Winchesters in the database because the lever action models were randomly mixed on the record pages making the entry in a database much more complicated and time consuming. Also, of the millions of lever action Winchesters built, only a very tiny percentage were sold at VL&D or A&F meaning a very small chance of having an inquiry for a great investment of time to enter the data.
While on their site, I wondered why the major list of Winchesters had so few (and so new) serial numbers for the 1894 model. My non-jackpot came from entering serial numbers in the Model 1894 category. Rats! Dreams become vapor, lost on the breeze.
Edit: Bert, you are faster than I on the keyboard!
FromTheWoods said
Jackpot! Model 1894 .38-55 DOM-1896 is in their records. Time to see about getting a letter from them!Thank you fellows.
Is there a place on this site for a permanent listing of sources such as this that have records for Winchesters? If not, may we have one?
How did you hit the Jackpot? G&H only has records back to the year 1901. On their website, they state the following;
Griffin & Howe is pleased to be able to make available the sales records of Von Lengerke & Detmold and Abercrombie & Fitch, two legendary purveyors of sporting arms in the 20th century. The records exist in over sixty very large ledger books recording sales and inventory between 1901 and 1976. The sales between 1901 and 1929 represent the sales of Von Lengerke & Detmold which was purchased by Abercrombie & Fitch in 1929. The Abercrombie & Fitch sales and inventory records begin in 1929 and continue through the closing of Abercrombie & Fitch in 1976.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Yes, I wondered how my older Winchester showed up in records that would put it prior to their stated dates. Thought maybe they kept track of used rifles that came through their hands.
Plus, when a person desires to see or to hear a specific result, it is easy for them to accept the facade rather than to pursue the truth. Seems I saw what was not there.
Mark Fischer said
Maybe I am looking in the wrong place but I found the G&H website to be lacking for Winchester lever action guns in previous research efforts. Thought I would go back and see if something changed. Saw lots of Model 70s and 21s but very few 94s; only counted 40 on the full list. Could not find SN 87258 either. Am I looking in the wrong place?Thanks for any help.
Merry Christmas and optimistic about a fantastic new year! Especially for an old “deplorable” man.
I had the exact same experience with the very few Model 94’s on that site.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
November 7, 2015
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These A&F ledgers sound like a treasure that needs to be preserved, better yet converted to a database. What kind of info did you see in the pages Mr Beach sent you, Bert?
Mike
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