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I talked a guy who’s long been in the jewelry business and has done some engraving, but not guns. He said he’s getting his FFL because he has to have one to engrave someone’s gun for them. Is this true? If so, then I would assume a gunsmith would also have to have an FFL?
It doesn’t sound right to me, but I’m no expert.
If the gunsmith is working on modern guns he has to have a FFL. A gunsmith that works only on antiques does not. A engraver that engraves the receiver of a gun needs a FFL.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 7, 2015
Offline
The Q&A section of the BATFE site has some very good info on this subject. Short answer is yes, he needs an FFL to engrave a gun in most cases.
Mike
1873man said
If the gunsmith is working on modern guns he has to have a FFL. A gunsmith that works only on antiques does not. A engraver that engraves the receiver of a gun needs a FFL.Bob
It’s not that simple. I did some reading and it can be understood. But your statement is not correct.
Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles
“There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”
Teddy Roosevelt
In my ignorance I would have thought an FFL was for transfer of ownership.
I wouldn’t have thought it was any of the government’s business that I’d get a 1873 Uberti receiver engraved with some old time style engraving by a guy who’s trying to develop a portfolio. I suppose if I want to get it silver plated then the company that does the plating will likewise have to have an FFL. 
Vince said
It’s not that simple. I did some reading and it can be understood. But your statement is not correct.
Vince,
What is not correct? How do you understand it? They only loop hole I see is if the person doing the work considers himself “Not in the Business”
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Chuck said
Maybe these guys can answer this? http://www.fega.com/
That’s how I found the guy I’m working with. He’s not a Master but he’s a member. I found FEGA through Ron Smith’s book, which is outstanding, by the way.
Just last weekend I met a guy who does beuatiful checkering, when I asked him where he worked out of- his reply was he only worked on his own stuff because he doesn’t have the ffl needed to possess and work on someone else’s firearm.He also stated that an older friend of his that used to tinker with friends guns was shut down and did a small amount of time in jail for operating without an ffl.I was very surprised to learn that,but it’s true
I just talked to a friend that is an engraver. The FFL for engravers is not a full FFL. It requires that each gun be logged in and out and that is about all. With this type of FFL you can not sell guns.
Chuck said
I just talked to a friend that is an engraver. The FFL for engravers is not a full FFL. It requires that each gun be logged in and out and that is about all. With this type of FFL you can not sell guns.
Thanks, Chuck. Is logging in and out reported to the government, or does the engraver just log it in and out of his own log book?
Edited to add a few more questions. Since this guy doesn’t have his FFL yet, I guess he can work on the fore end cap and the butt plate. As to what I would call the “receiver”, the only serial number is on the lower tang, but that separates from the rest of “it”. Can any parts be sent before the FFL, like the side plates? The only other number I have is a Uberti Cat # on the bottom, just behind the elevator but it doesn’t match the serial number. I think I know the answers, but I’m asking experts for any clarification.
1873man said
Vince,
What is not correct? How do you understand it? They only loop hole I see is if the person doing the work considers himself “Not in the Business”
Bob
Yes, if not in the business to maintain a profit, as as a hobbyist not doing many on a regular basis. Also if the owner of the gun is present there would be no need for a FFL. I wasn’t saying you were wrong necessarily, I should have said the statement was simplistic and the answer is convoluted……as most regulatory answers are.
Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles
“There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”
Teddy Roosevelt
Vince,
Thanks for the clarification. I would think most engravers are doing it for money.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob, True. But look at all the guys selling guns on GB who don’t have ffl. They call themselves hobbyist or say the are acting as middle men assisting the owner in posting the sale and the owner is selling the gun. Most all of them belong in jail. Why doesn’t the feds go after them and leave the artists who do nothing but artwork alone!
Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles
“There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”
Teddy Roosevelt
November 7, 2015
Offline
I think the jeweler/engraver has almost as much reason to have an FFL as a gunsmith even though I may or may not agree with the reason. If it’s a regular part of his business it would prevent a few headaches and simplify shipping. I agree with you on the online DEALERS, Vince. They need a license just as I need a C&R license to do what I do. I don’t agree with the reasoning but the law is pretty clear so I’ll follow it.
Mike
Huck Riley said
Chuck said
I just talked to a friend that is an engraver. The FFL for engravers is not a full FFL. It requires that each gun be logged in and out and that is about all. With this type of FFL you can not sell guns.Thanks, Chuck. Is logging in and out reported to the government, or does the engraver just log it in and out of his own log book?
Edited to add a few more questions. Since this guy doesn’t have his FFL yet, I guess he can work on the fore end cap and the butt plate. As to what I would call the “receiver”, the only serial number is on the lower tang, but that separates from the rest of “it”. Can any parts be sent before the FFL, like the side plates? The only other number I have is a Uberti Cat # on the bottom, just behind the elevator but it doesn’t match the serial number. I think I know the answers, but I’m asking experts for any clarification.
I don’t think you have to report it to the government but you can be audited at their convenience. I can’t say how the government would react to a receiver that doesn’t have a serial number? Parts are parts not a gun, except the part that has the serial number in most cases. I am not an expert. When my friend does a gun he has it shipped to an FFL and then does the work at the FFL’s shop. That way the gun is always in the FFL’s possession. He is mainly a knife maker that engraves most anything.
Thanks, Chuck. I’m going to give him the fore end cap, butt plate and side plates now.
I took the rifle apart and have the lower tang, with SN, separate; but since I’m going to have a guns smith take the “main” (?) part of the receiver off the barrel anyway, I’ll just wait till the guy has his FFL until I bring him that. If he needs the lower tang then I’ll bring that too, but I’m not having that part engraved.
After all that is done, I’m having it silver-plated so that will be another question. But I think that could all be done in a day so I could just hang out on site when the plating is done.
I always wanted an engraved, silver-plated (butt, receiver only, fore end cap, front bbl band, front site), 30″ OBFMCB 1873 Winchester but I’m not willing to work hard or smart enough to find or afford one. I’m going to let the silver patina because I like that look. I’m re-doing the wood myself, very dark/black, flat and oiled. I don’t like glossy, light or red. Maybe get the nitre blue screws, or maybe not. Hmmm.
Anyway, thank you all for the education. Never knew the ATF was concerned about such things.
Just make sure who ever does the plating, does not copper flash it before plating. Plater’s that do non gun stuff always like to copper flash the parts so they stick better but old guns never were.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
Just make sure who ever does the plating, does not copper flash it before plating. Plater’s that do non gun stuff always like to copper flash the parts so they stick better but old guns never were.Bob
Thanks for the heads up, Bob. Will do.
If you’ve ever seen patina’d silver that almost has a case-colored rainbow thing going on, that’s what I’m going for. https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdjulia/item/1248-373/
What does the copper flash end up doing, visually? Will it make the silver stick better? I’m just making sure I’m armed with info if I get push from the plater.
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