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Did Winchester make a pre-64 Model 70 in 30-03 Government
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September 30, 2021 - 6:15 pm
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Steve Garbe said

I’ll get some photos and attempt to post them; the “3” looks straight to me, but after spending a few years collecting single shots, I know better than to say nothing is a possibility.

Steve,  Posting photos here is not easy for non-members.  Merely having someone of your experience confirm the caliber markings on the underside of the brl. would suffice to resolve this controversy. 

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November 7, 2021 - 5:22 pm
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I have owned two 1948 model 70 Winchesters that at first glance appeared to be .30GOV’T03 but on inspection it was a damaged stamp. I still have one of them and will try to post a picture.

Thank you.

Wayne

 

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November 7, 2021 - 6:16 pm
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I guess we never heard any outcome from Steve Garbe.  It seems a simple thing on any of these rifles is to see if a .30-03 cartridge will chamber.  However, given I’ve never tried it, I’d want to see if the bolt will close on a .30-03 case in a M70 with a standard .30-06 chamber.  I assume it won’t close but would want to know first.  Because if it did close, my suggestion would not be definitive.  

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November 7, 2021 - 9:20 pm
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steve004 said
I guess we never heard any outcome from Steve Garbe.    

And that’s a damn shame, since he’s someone whose judgement can be trusted.  I’m guessing that when he took it out of the stock as he said he’d do, & saw the “1906” marking, he decided it wasn’t worth reporting, as that’s what most of us believe about these alleged ’03s anyway.  But “not reporting” doesn’t stamp out the questions & speculation.

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November 7, 2021 - 9:45 pm
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clarence said

steve004 said
I guess we never heard any outcome from Steve Garbe.    

And that’s a damn shame, since he’s someone whose judgement can be trusted.  I’m guessing that when he took it out of the stock as he said he’d do, & saw the “1906” marking, he decided it wasn’t worth reporting, as that’s what most of us believe about these alleged ’03s anyway.  But “not reporting” doesn’t stamp out the questions & speculation.  

Steve also said he was going to try a .30-03 cartridge in the chamber.

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November 7, 2021 - 10:35 pm
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steve004 said
  Steve also said he was going to try a .30-03 cartridge in the chamber.  

Yes, but best proof of caliber is brl marking.

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November 18, 2021 - 9:07 pm
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I have a 1940’s model 70 30-03 gov’t. Was told only 200 produced and most likely by the R&D department for some unknown reason. Told one came up for auction in 2008 and sold for $8000. 

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November 19, 2021 - 2:02 am
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John Busskohl said
I have a 1940’s model 70 30-03 gov’t. Was told only 200 produced and most likely by the R&D department for some unknown reason. Told one came up for auction in 2008 and sold for $8000.   

Interesting.  I’m thinking your rifle is much rarer than you think.  I’m confident far less than 200 were produced.

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November 19, 2021 - 2:21 am
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John Busskohl said
I have a 1940’s model 70 30-03 gov’t. Was told only 200 produced and most likely by the R&D department for some unknown reason. Told one came up for auction in 2008 and sold for $8000.   

How is it marked on the bottom of the brl?  There you will find the true caliber marking.

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November 16, 2023 - 9:47 pm
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Yes Winchester did make a pre-64 model 70 in 30-03 because I have one.

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November 16, 2023 - 10:25 pm
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Robert Huseby said
Yes Winchester did make a pre-64 model 70 in 30-03 because I have one.

  

Prove it.

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November 16, 2023 - 10:40 pm
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Robert Huseby said
Yes Winchester did make a pre-64 model 70 in 30-03 because I have one.

  

Can you provide clear pictures showing the caliber marking on the upper and lower sides of the barrel?

Bert

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November 17, 2023 - 2:25 am
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Robert Huseby said
Yes Winchester did make a pre-64 model 70 in 30-03 because I have one.

  

Have you fired the gun?

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November 17, 2023 - 2:59 am
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Tedk said Have you fired the gun?
  

What bearing would that have on the disputed issue?  The preceding discussion, analysis, & photos, should make pretty clear what info would be needed to confirm this claim: the markings on the bottom of the brl.  They aren’t hard to find.

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November 17, 2023 - 3:27 am
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It’s hard to imagine why Winchester would chamber a Model 70 in 30-03 decades after the cartridge was eclipsed by the 30-06 but most of us know better than to say it couldn’t happen. Apparently it only took a dedicated shooter with a checkbook and a sympathetic employee at Winchester to make magic happen.

 

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November 17, 2023 - 3:57 am
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TXGunNut said Apparently it only took a dedicated shooter with a checkbook and a sympathetic employee at Winchester to make magic happen.

“Apparently”?  Where’s the proof?  Four respondents including the last have made this claim, but when asked to provide evidence beyond their “word,” not one has done so.  Will Mr Huseby be the first? 

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November 17, 2023 - 2:28 pm
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I mentioned this before, but Bob Porter did record one (of 11,340 M70s surveyed) M70 standard rifle in 30-03.  It was not a “typo” on Bob’s part b/c he underlined the caliber on the card and wrote “rare”.  The S/N was 90611 (1948) and he saw it in Tulsa in April 2008.  Of course his written record, without photos, etc. isn’t proof of the rifle’s factory origin, but would appear to confirm that M70(s) in 30-03 exist.

I have never seen one (real or otherwise)… 

Like Bert, I’d love to see clear photos of the barrel markings and under chamber stamps, as well as a chamber cast.  Since Mr. Huseby posted as a Guest, he cannot post photos directly, but if he wants to send them to me ([email protected]) or Bert, I’m sure we’d be happy to upload them.

Gotta’ love a good mystery!!! Laugh 

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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November 17, 2023 - 3:28 pm
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Louis Luttrell said Of course his written record, without photos, etc. isn’t proof of the rifle’s factory origin, but would appear to confirm that M70(s) in 30-03 exist.
  

If & ONLY if he examined markings on the UNDERSIDE of the brl.  (Or, preferably, chambered a .30-03 cartridge.)  Is it likely that in the crowding & confusion of a typical Tulsa show he was permitted to do that?  Not impossible, but the seller of this rifle would have been uncommonly accommodating if he allowed it.  More likely to have said, “buy it, & if it’s not right, I’ll refund your dough.”  As a matter of fact, why didn’t he buy it, advanced 70 collector that he was?  I do not accept the proposition that Bob Porter, or anyone else, not excluding myself, never made a mistake!

I love mysteries, but not fables, myths, apologues, old wives’ tales, & the like, nor careless observations.

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November 17, 2023 - 3:28 pm
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The only word to describe a Pre64 Model 70 chambered in .30 Government 06 is Poppycock!

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November 17, 2023 - 3:59 pm
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clarence said

Tedk said Have you fired the gun?

  

What bearing would that have on the disputed issue?  The preceding discussion, analysis, & photos, should make pretty clear what info would be needed to confirm this claim: the markings on the bottom of the brl.  They aren’t hard to find.

  

I’m of the belief that you, if anyone Clarence would see the significance of the OP being able to chamber and fire a .30-03 round in a M70. Isn’t that the crux of the disputed issue?

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