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Did Winchester make a pre-64 Model 70 in 30-03 Government
July 11, 2021
1:00 pm
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I was Curious.

Did Winchester ever Mfg. a pre 64, Model 70 in 30-03 Government Cartridge?Smile

July 11, 2021
1:08 pm
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A cartridge that had been obsolete since 1906?  Not hardly.

July 11, 2021
1:49 pm
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Clarence,

Thanks,

Didn’t think so. On another Forum, a fellow posted that his buddy has a 1948, Model 70,

In a 30-03 Caliber!

He hasn’t verified with pics , as I doubt he will!

 

Could be a Frankenchester!Frown

Tony

July 11, 2021
11:14 pm
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Tony,

I believe that Winchester did indeed make at least a few Model 70 Rifles in 30-03. Hopefully Lou will jump in with his vast knowledge of the Model 70 production.

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July 11, 2021
11:57 pm
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In a thread somewhere a long time ago there were pics of a similar gun.

It appeared that the #6 in the caliber designation stamp was chipped giving the appearance of a #3. It was pretty easy to visualize how it should have been.

July 12, 2021
12:08 am
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Bert H. said
Tony,
I believe that Winchester did indeed make at least a few Model 70 Rifles in 30-03. Hopefully Lou will jump in with his vast knowledge of the Model 70 production.  

Was not offered for 54s, so bizarre if it became available for 70s.

July 12, 2021
12:10 am
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Tedk said
In a thread somewhere a long time ago there were pics of a similar gun.

It appeared that the #6 in the caliber designation stamp was chipped giving the appearance of a #3. It was pretty easy to visualize how it should have been.  

That makes sense–caliber dies do wear or get damaged.

July 12, 2021
3:21 pm
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Maybe it’s a .30-30

Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.

July 12, 2021
9:00 pm
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Bert H. said
Tony,
I believe that Winchester did indeed make at least a few Model 70 Rifles in 30-03. Hopefully Lou will jump in with his vast knowledge of the Model 70 production.  

Bert,

Thanks for your input also!

I’m surprised, and looking fore ward to Lou’s input also!

Old Logger said
Maybe it’s a .30-30  

Their saying it’s a 30-03!Smile

July 16, 2021
9:25 pm
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PAGING THE INFAMOUS LOU LUTTRELL!Smile

July 17, 2021
1:28 pm
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Tedk said
In a thread somewhere a long time ago there were pics of a similar gun.

It appeared that the #6 in the caliber designation stamp was chipped giving the appearance of a #3. It was pretty easy to visualize how it should have been.  

Ted,

A fellow posted on another Forum, that same thing.

I’m trying to find it, with pics and will try to post it!

I have seen the worn 6, in the past, and am aware of it, but this isn’t supposed to be it!

I’ve sent Louis Luttrell,  a P.M. , and hoping we’ll hear from him soon!Smile

July 18, 2021
1:47 pm
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Lou,

Did respond to my PM. He’s in the process of moving, and doesn’t have WiFi, but was able to log on at his brothers house, and answer some questions, that I had.

He stated that he is not aware of any,  DOCUMENTED, pre-64 model 70’s in 30-03 Caliber!

The 30-03 case neck is a little longer, and is an issue trying to fit in a chamber for the 30-06, but the 30-03 chamber would except the 30-06 Cartridge!

Hence, Why there have been sightings in the past of a 30-06, Caliber pre-64 Model 70, re stamped, over the original Factory stamped 30-06 Caliber!

Lou, also brought up a very good point, stating that the U.S. fought the whole World War using the 30-06 Caliber, right up until the mfg. of the Winchester Model 70.

Lou, also stated that this issue came up about a year ago, and he spoke with Justin Hale, (@Pre-64 win.com), about the issue, and Justin had pics of a chipped Stamped 30 GOV’T’06, Die, that looked like a 30-03 Caliber. without magnification benefit!

I’m sure when Lou gets settled, we’ll here some more from him.Smile

July 18, 2021
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limestone304@aol.com said
Lou,

Did respond to my PM. He’s in the process of moving, and doesn’t have WiFi, but was able to log on at his brothers house, and answer some questions, that I had.

He stated that he is not aware of any,  DOCUMENTED, pre-64 model 70’s in 30-03 Caliber!

The 30-03 case neck is a little longer, and is an issue trying to fit in a chamber for the 30-06, but the 30-03 chamber would except the 30-06 Cartridge!

Hence, Why there have been sightings in the past of a 30-06, Caliber pre-64 Model 70, re stamped, over the original Factory stamped 30-06 Caliber!

Lou, also brought up a very good point, stating that the U.S. fought the whole World War using the 30-06 Caliber, right up until the mfg. of the Winchester Model 70.

Lou, also stated that this issue came up about a year ago, and he spoke with Justin Hale, (@Pre-64 win.com), about the issue, and Justin had pics of a chipped Stamped 30 GOV’T’06, Die, that looked like a 30-03 Caliber. without magnification benefit!

I’m sure when Lou gets settled, we’ll here some more from him.Smile  

I’m not a M70 guy.  I am curious about the concept of a “documented” (pre-64) M70.  How many M70’s can be documented? Isn’t that the problem with purchasing M70’s in .300 Savage, .35 Remington, 7.65, 9mm and so on – that is – there are no factory records to check to prove that serial number rifle was shipped in that chambering?  I suppose if an original invoice from the factory had been retained, one would have documentation but short of that are there any other documentation options?

July 18, 2021
3:13 pm
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Steve,

You bring up some very good points.

I’m sure that’s why Lou stated, and I want to re iterate that point, that he’s not aware, and Until we see and can verify, it’s still subject to controversy.

With the other Facts that Lou, stated, as Others, it would be pretty astonishing,to me, if there was one or more originally mfg. by Winchester!

It’s also, a little amazing that there hasn’t been any official paper work, documentation, on this Matter!

Two very renowned people, with similar interests on the subject, can’t verify the facts!

The same always holds true,

BUYER BEWARE!

TonySmile

July 18, 2021
4:38 pm
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steve004 said

I’m not a M70 guy.  I am curious about the concept of a “documented” (pre-64) M70.  How many M70’s can be documented? Isn’t that the problem with purchasing M70’s in .300 Savage, .35 Remington, 7.65, 9mm and so on – that is – there are no factory records to check to prove that serial number rifle was shipped in that chambering?  I suppose if an original invoice from the factory had been retained, one would have documentation but short of that are there any other documentation options?  

Wouldn’t necessarily have to document a specific rifle chambered for .30-03, only that the chambering was available on special order, in which case there would surely be factory records of some sort to document that fact; there are none, & the idea of making available even on special order such an obsolete, inferior cartridge is really too ludicrous to deserve serious consideration, esp. when there’s a common-sense rational explanation for how a barrel could be mis-marked. 

July 18, 2021
5:35 pm
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clarence said

Wouldn’t necessarily have to document a specific rifle chambered for .30-03, only that the chambering was available on special order, in which case there would surely be factory records of some sort to document that fact; there are none, & the idea of making available even on special order such an obsolete, inferior cartridge is really too ludicrous to deserve serious consideration, esp. when there’s a common-sense rational explanation for how a barrel could be mis-marked.   

Ah but the, “spin” seller’s often put on such items.  I’m often struck by how often the presentation, confidence, and loosely related tidbits of information are woven together to create the illusion of reality.  Not that anyone here would fall for it, but I have seen it succeed time and time again.  These are the type items that can get bid up to crazy money at auctions – often by bidders who could stand to be more knowledgeable and could stand to have a better understanding of Caveat Emptor.  

In the case of Model 70’s, it’s not like a factory letter for that serial numbered rifle is going to show up to disprove the seller’s claims. 

July 18, 2021
6:03 pm
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Just got this photo from Lou.

Of a Mis stamped pre-64 Model 70.thumbnail.jpgImage Enlarger

This seems to be the same Rifle in question on another Forum, but until, we can verify serial #’s, it’s a guess as they are both claimed to be mfg. in 1948!

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July 18, 2021
6:22 pm
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I know that I would have been fooled at a Gun Show if I were in the Market, for something Rare!

Lou, did say this was mfg. in 1948, and I’m thinking it’s the same Rifle being talked about, mfg. in 1948 also, but until a serial # and a Pic. is shown, it’s more speculation, in the coincidence area.

I’m thinking the owner is trying to verify it’s authenticity, again. Smile

July 18, 2021
6:24 pm
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steve004 said

In the case of Model 70’s, it’s not like a factory letter for that serial numbered rifle is going to show up to disprove the seller’s claims.   

What would disprove the seller’s claims is close inspection by an expert like Lou.  If one existed that could stand up to such inspection, it would already have sold for “crazy money” at some major auction & we’d know about it–the rarest M70 in existence! 

July 18, 2021
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limestone304@aol.com said
Just got this photo from Lou.

Of a Mis stamped pre-64 Model 70.thumbnail.jpgImage Enlarger

This seems to be the same Rifle in question on another Forum, but until, we can verify serial #’s, it’s a guess as they are both claimed to be mfg. in 1948!  

That last “3” in the caliber marking sure looks odd and out of sync to me.

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