Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
condition vs special features
Avatar
apache
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 235
Member Since:
February 8, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
41
April 21, 2022 - 11:33 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

I’ve been a collector of the unusual and special order Winchesters amongst other brands of firearms since 1959. Condition became the last thing I thought about when collecting. That being said, I realize most WACA members that I’ve known disagreed with me. The reason I would choose the unusual rather than condition was the fact that I’ve known some of the best Antique Restorers in the world. I’ve seen firearms with virtually no condition, with both mechanical and finish gone, brought back to look as though they never saw the light of day, much less were used. I know all the “Experts” will say they can tell. My reply to them usually is “Of course you can”. New Collectors please take note, the nemisis of condition is “OXIDATION” (TIME). So IMHO, if a firearm that’s 100 to 150 plus years old has the condition as though it almost just left the factory, it probably did, just not the manufacturers factory.

apache ( ya ta hey )SmileSmileSmileCool

Avatar
steve004
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5173
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
42
April 21, 2022 - 11:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

I’ve been been giving more thought to the, “condition vs. special features” topic.  The reflection I had is that 100% of Winchesters were, at one time, in 100% condition.  

Avatar
Chuck
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5808
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
43
April 22, 2022 - 7:20 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

If anyone has been doing this for a very long time and has held thousands of guns in their hands you should be able to tell a restored gun “more often than not”.  But, it can be hard sometimes especially if the work was done a long time ago.  A well skilled restorer has figured out how to build the parts correctly and has a finishing process that is as good as the factory.  Once aged back these can be very hard for the newer collectors to spot easily.  When I was picking for a well know Winchester dealer that had guns restored I frequently found guns that I was not 100% positive so I made him look at the gun so he could make up his mind or make up his story.  It’s hard if not impossible to get the patina way down in the blued finish that a 100 year old gun will have.  All guns will have some patina if you really look at them.

I prefer guns that have some patina because these guns tell the story.  Special features are always a plus.  I don’t buy ugly guns even with special features.

Avatar
steve004
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5173
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
44
April 22, 2022 - 10:04 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Here’s an interesting example of low end condition but mostly original.  The buttstock has been swapped out but as the seller speculates, it may have occurred during an R&R.  I’m a bit skeptical on that point as the buttstock and forearm are quite mismatched, but who knows.  The wood is serviceable, the rifle hasn’t been reblued or drilled and tapped.  The rifle has seen a lot of honest use, yet it hasn’t been abused.  To me, it looks like it was hunted with every day since the day it left the factory.  The stories it could tell are surely amazing. The chambering and configuration, while not rare, are desirable to many.  This rifle also could have been an example in a previous thread where we discussed preferences for brown vs. white guns.  This rifle prompts me to answer brown rather than white.

Opinions/reactions?  Too worn to own?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/929751151

Avatar
Maverick
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2029
Member Since:
May 23, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
45
April 23, 2022 - 12:08 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

I hate the fact that it has a broken take down lever. Trying to find a replacement won’t be easy. 

Otherwise looks like a honest gun, but I’d be hesitant to put my money in it. Probably save it for another in better condition or just buy a different model.

But I’m sure it’ll find a nice home with someone.

Sincerely,

Maverick

Avatar
clarence
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
46
April 24, 2022 - 2:16 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

steve004 said
  This rifle prompts me to answer brown rather than white.
 

I’ll take the white, but chacun a son gout.  But maybe the steel plate was installed because the rubber pad collapsed or deteriorated.

Avatar
steve004
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5173
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
47
April 24, 2022 - 1:56 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

clarence said

steve004 said
  This rifle prompts me to answer brown rather than white.
 

I’ll take the white, but chacun a son gout.  But maybe the steel plate was installed because the rubber pad collapsed or deteriorated.  

Is it possible they meant hard rubber butt plate?

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Online: gobblerforge, Byron Russell, TR, SureShot, Pwog
Guest(s) 54
Top Posters:
clarence: 7119
TXGunNut: 6408
Chuck: 5808
steve004: 5173
1873man: 4698
deerhunter: 2694
Big Larry: 2549
twobit: 2493
mrcvs: 2194
Maverick: 2029
Newest Members:
ross
Model94-2025
R.E. Moore
sjGUESTEST
WindsurfAruba
cedar swamp savage
tradecraft
Weida78
Alby
Lambeau
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 18
Topics: 14714
Posts: 131625

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 2057
Members: 9982
Moderators: 3
Admins: 4
Administrators: Mike Hager, Bert H., JWA, SethJ
Moderators: Rob Kassab, Brad Dunbar, Heather
Navigation