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condition vs special features
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April 18, 2022 - 12:54 am
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Hi Steve,

No, I’m only referring to guns purchased for their non-standard configurations.  For me they have to letter.  And yes, as Rick noted, that does reduce the “n” quite a bit.  I’m ok with that.  If I’m just picking up a standard carbine outside the range, then no worries.  

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April 18, 2022 - 1:49 am
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  Gary,

 Thanks for posting pictures, interesting. I noticed two of the barrels have USA barrel addressing dating them after 1885. The first listing in the Winchester Catalog for a matted barrel extra is 1884. If someone has a matted barrel with a CT. barrel address it is likely the first type. Just a guess. Tom

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April 18, 2022 - 2:01 am
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Here are pictures of some I could find. The file name is the serial number, all are 73’s

Bob

61362.jpgImage Enlarger104936.jpgImage Enlarger153355.jpgImage Enlarger

206056.jpgImage Enlarger224136.jpgImage Enlarger284693.jpgImage Enlarger

307614.jpgImage Enlarger368174.jpgImage Enlarger508136.jpgImage Enlarger

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73_86cutaway.jpg

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April 18, 2022 - 4:30 pm
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 Just using Bob”s post, it appears two of the 73’s were made before 1884 and the listing in the catalog.

      s/n 61362 mfg 1880 wavy pattern

      s/n 104936 mfg 1882 square pattern

      s/n 153355 mfg 1884 diagonal

      s/n 206056 mfg 1886 diagonal

      s/n 224136 mfg 1886 square

      s/n 284693 mfg 1888 diagonal

      s/n 307614 mfg 1889 square

      s/n 308174 mfg 1889 square

      s/n 508136 mfg 1896 diagonal

   It appears the square and diagonal are mixed in this list. Tom  

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April 18, 2022 - 4:42 pm
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I’d like to see a little more of 206056.

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April 18, 2022 - 10:14 pm
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Well after reading all this I have to say this with out tipping my hand. The rifle in question that I am looking at was made in 1898 and has wavy matting on the barrel. Now a quick Cody serial number search shows this gun was returned to the factory for “repairs”. Is it possible the matting was added later and the customer asked for the wavy line matting? I ask this question with respect as because 1873man and TR have posted pictures and dates that do not coincide with this rifle.  

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April 18, 2022 - 11:17 pm
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Chuck said
I’d like to see a little more of 206056.  

Here you go chuck,

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/76/3011/john-ulrich-signed-winchester-deluxe-model-1873-rifle

It belonged to a friend of ours and debated buying it from him.

Bob

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April 18, 2022 - 11:22 pm
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oldcrankyyankee said
Well after reading all this I have to say this with out tipping my hand. The rifle in question that I am looking at was made in 1898 and has wavy matting on the barrel. Now a quick Cody serial number search shows this gun was returned to the factory for “repairs”. Is it possible the matting was added later and the customer asked for the wavy line matting? I ask this question with respect as because 1873man and TR have posted pictures and dates that do not coincide with this rifle.    

What model are you looking at?

Bob

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April 18, 2022 - 11:56 pm
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1873man said

Chuck said
I’d like to see a little more of 206056.  

Here you go chuck,

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/76/3011/john-ulrich-signed-winchester-deluxe-model-1873-rifle

It belonged to a friend of ours and debated buying it from him.

Bob  

Love the rifle. And the LETTER.  And the Signature.  GREAT Piece!

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April 19, 2022 - 12:45 am
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  Herbert Houze’s book lists 204 matted barrels 1876’s.

  John Madl 1886 search list 206 matted barrels 1886’s.

  Bob’s survey of 19,300 1873’s list 27 matted barrels.

  The 1894 survey of s/n 1-353,999 by John Hawk list 203 matted barrels.

 This feature is not common and was provided before being listed in the catalog as an extra. Maybe the matting patterns did not follow a time line? More questions than answers. T/R

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April 19, 2022 - 4:18 am
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Thus far I have documented (197) Single Shot rifles with matted barrels in my survey, but that is not a completed survey. I suspect the total number will be something north of (300).

Bert

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April 19, 2022 - 7:25 pm
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That is interesting. Looks like most models run at in excess of 200 guns. I would imagine the 73s would be at least that if not 3-400.

If I recall correctly there were a few 66s and 1890s with matted barrels.

Was there any 1887s or 1901s with a matted barrel?

Sincerely,

Maverick

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April 19, 2022 - 11:09 pm
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1873 man it is an 1886

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April 20, 2022 - 2:26 am
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Maverick said
That is interesting. Looks like most models run at in excess of 200 guns. I would imagine the 73s would be at least that if not 3-400.

If I recall correctly there were a few 66s and 1890s with matted barrels.

Was there any 1887s or 1901s with a matted barrel?

Sincerely,

Maverick  

Don’t know if there are any Model 1887s or 1901s with matted barrels, but I do know that there were a substantial number of Model 1897s made with matted barrels.  I own one (S/N 666841) with a roll matted barrel, and the matting pattern is different than the three known types found on the rifles.

Bert

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April 20, 2022 - 2:37 am
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Well Bert, my mouth is watering for a picture!

Sincerely,

Maverick

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April 20, 2022 - 3:40 pm
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This is 1876 39930, received and shipped April 29, 1884.  Square pattern matting.

 

39930-07.jpgImage Enlarger

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I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder

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April 20, 2022 - 4:00 pm
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1873man said

Chuck said
I’d like to see a little more of 206056.  

Here you go chuck,

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/76/3011/john-ulrich-signed-winchester-deluxe-model-1873-rifle

It belonged to a friend of ours and debated buying it from him.

Bob  

Thanks, I knew there had to be a lot more to this rifle.

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April 20, 2022 - 4:41 pm
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The different patterns are an interesting phenomenon.  I don’t recall ever seeing a cataloged option where the buyer could select what pattern of matting they wanted.  I also don’t recall any specificity in Cody letters that specify what pattern of matting was used.  My impression here is we have not been able to determine distinct years where one style of matting stopped and another style started.  There is overlap, correct?  This suggests the Winchester employees had some option as to what pattern they used.  How did they decide?

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April 21, 2022 - 4:40 am
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Maverick said
Well Bert, my mouth is watering for a picture!

Sincerely,

Maverick  

OK…

As it turns out, I have pictures of two different types of barrel matting used on the Model 1897.  The second picture shows the exact same matting as on my Model 1897.

Early

Type-3-Barrel-marking-115096-matted-barrel.jpgImage Enlarger

Later

Type-6-Barrel-marking-576393-matted-barrel.jpgImage Enlarger

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April 21, 2022 - 6:30 pm
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On the topic of barrel matting, I still remember a day in 1990 when the Merz catalog was sitting in the mailbox.  This was quite an issue and one of the main features was Jim Huntley’s collection of M1892 Trapper carbines and short rifles.  Wow – Trappers in 12, 14, 16, 17 and 18 inch barrel lengths. Short rifles in 14, 15 and 16 inch barrel lengths – and this is just a small selection of what was in there.  Back to the topic, in that catalog there was also a Model 1876 .50-95 that really caught my eye.  A very special, very high condition deluxe rifle with numerous special order features including engraved forend cap, hammer and lever (the receiver was not engraved).  Anyway, it was a round barrel rifle and one special order feature really stood out to me:  “raised matted rib barrel.”  Unfortunately there was no photo of the barrel and I was never able to hold the rifle in my hands.  I sure wonder who has the rifle now.  And, I sure wonder just what that, “matted rib” looked like.  I of course wonder, whether it was an actual raised rib, or was it the effect of the matting on the barrel that created a raised appearance.

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