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Chuck said
Restorer or destroyer???
All in the eye of the beholder. I can understand someone wanting to restore a rifle that was in the family for a 100yrs, but I can also understand the dents dings & kisses being a part of the family history.
It would have to be a complete wreck for me restore anything & have some major significance to me as well.
RickC
RickC said
All in the eye of the beholder. I can understand someone wanting to restore a rifle that was in the family for a 100yrs, but I can also understand the dents dings & kisses being a part of the family history.
You would think so! I would think so! Yet I have run into many people who regard “restoring” their ancestor’s gun or other heirloom as a kind of “tribute” to their ancestor! I disagree vehemently, but it’s not my call.
I’m probably in sync with what seems the majority here, I really don’t want too much around me that is creeping north of 90% and enjoy a smooth 75% or less. Even a nice overall brown is good for me, especially if there is a little blue in the nooks and crannies. I’m put off by too much pitting. I don’t care how nice a refinish is, it just doesn’t do it for me. Only original.
I do want to be able to shoot anything I own so that is why I don’t have room in my heart for a mint safe queen, aside from the fact that down here the humidity is sometimes soup, even on a good day during the summer it is a broth. Only one time in my life did I pull out a firearm and found that I was negligent enough to let some new rust grow. Not again.
[email protected] said
Ric C,This really is a great Topic, as it shows the vast differences in collecting! Thanks!
Limestone
You’re welcome Limestone. I like hearing what the experienced collectors & experts on this forum think, suggest, and confirm.
RickC
I dont have a lot of trust in guns you see that are +95% condition. You look around some of these shows and it doesnt take long to figure out there are a number of the “higher end” guns have been tinkered with in one way or another. In tracking these guns that sale at auctions from time to time you catch some that once had a blemish or scratch on the metal or wood thats no longer there 5-10 years later.
I prefer to stick with the 60-90% guns, something that has some honest wear and original, as someone mentioned, has a history of honest use recorded in that wear. For those ultra rare guns out there condition isnt as big of a consideration. I also like to shoot what I collect. Using these guns for what they were intended is as big part of collecting for me as it is to enjoy their rarity, originality, condition, or means to acquire them.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
November 7, 2015
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IMHO an honest 95% gun is about as common as an honest politician. They do exist but you need to look close and make your own decisions. A few years ago I could say I shoot every Winchester I own. Nowadays I enjoy every Winchester I own. I am trying to refine my little collection in the direction of higher condition guns but the guns that draw the most attention from other shooters (and most satisfaction from me) are the 70% guns. At a glance it’s obvious they’ve “been there, done that” and with few exceptions they shoot quite well.
We can’t all have safes full of high condition fancy rifles. But we can all have Winchesters we can be proud of. If you want to sell a Winchester today, condition is very important. If you want to enjoy a Winchester for years to come, character is what you want.
Mike
TXGunNut said
IMHO an honest 95% gun is about as common as an honest politician. They do exist but you need to look close and make your own decisions. A few years ago I could say I shoot every Winchester I own. Nowadays I enjoy every Winchester I own. I am trying to refine my little collection in the direction of higher condition guns but the guns that draw the most attention from other shooters (and most satisfaction from me) are the 70% guns. At a glance it’s obvious they’ve “been there, done that” and with few exceptions they shoot quite well.We can’t all have safes full of high condition fancy rifles. But we can all have Winchesters we can be proud of. If you want to sell a Winchester today, condition is very important. If you want to enjoy a Winchester for years to come, character is what you want.
Mike
Well said! I like the part, “about as common as an honest politician”.
I am proud to own and enjoy a honest gun in shoot-able condition. T/R
Just what is a safe queen too good to shoot definition? To me it is a new in the box piece, or like new. So, to me a 98%+ gun is not too good to shoot. Are 98% guns too good to shoot also called safe queens simply because a person chooses not to shoot them? I like guns in a very broad range of condition, some original and some not, and I’d shoot any of them except 99+% like new guns that do not show any sign of ever being used. I think that a lot of people here and elsewhere refer to a lot of high condition guns as safe queens in a negative way simply because they have not included them in their collection.
James
My definition of a safe queen is any gun that the owner won’t shoot. I try to shoot all that I own. But, the really nice and expensive ones only go to the range. Lesser guns I will take into the woods.
Honest used car salesman or honest gun dealer. Oxymorons for sure. Sure there are honest ones out there but…
Chuck said
My definition of a safe queen is any gun that the owner won’t shoot. I try to shoot all that I own. But, the really nice and expensive ones only go to the range. Lesser guns I will take into the woods.
Honest used car salesman or honest gun dealer. Oxymorons for sure. Sure there are honest ones out there but…
I like your answer, Chuck, because it does not knock the Queens!!!
I was talking with the son just the other day about taking our Winchester Sniper Rifle ( a 98% gun) to the range, and maybe that will happen, but it seems like all we do anymore is just talk about the things that we use to do. At least we had a nice, but short conversation, about what a great experience it would make.
James
jwm94 said
I like your answer, Chuck, because it does not knock the Queens!!!
I was talking with the son just the other day about taking our Winchester Sniper Rifle ( a 98% gun) to the range, and maybe that will happen, but it seems like all we do anymore is just talk about the things that we use to do. At least we had a nice, but short conversation, about what a great experience it would make.
James
I haven’t been loading and shooting much the last few years since my Dad passed away. Lately I have started to do so. Tuesday I am taking my new paper puncher and an 85 in 22 WCF. I have not shot my reloads yet. These were loaded with parts from other dies. 18 months after I ordered the die set if finally came but by that time I loaded 50 rounds. We’ll see.
jwm94 said
Just what is a safe queen too good to shoot definition? To me it is a new in the box piece, or like new. So, to me a 98%+ gun is not too good to shoot. Are 98% guns too good to shoot also called safe queens simply because a person chooses not to shoot them? I like guns in a very broad range of condition, some original and some not, and I’d shoot any of them except 99+% like new guns that do not show any sign of ever being used. I think that a lot of people here and elsewhere refer to a lot of high condition guns as safe queens in a negative way simply because they have not included them in their collection.James
“Too good to shoot” really means “too good to handle”; not the shooting, but the handling that creates the conditions for a possible accident: knocking or scraping the gun against something while removing it from a case or getting it into position on a bench, or even dropping it. When other people are around you, even one, the possibility of a lapse in your attention goes up 1000%. On a hot day, sweaty palms do the varnish & metal no good, & with a 98% gun, I’d wear white cotton gloves while handling it.
jwm94 said
I was talking with the son just the other day about taking our Winchester Sniper Rifle ( a 98% gun) to the range, and maybe that will happen, but it seems like all we do anymore is just talk about the things that we use to do.
James
Incredibly rare as it is, it would be hard for me to resist shooting that one! But not without kid gloves! Especially if you could get some reloads loaded down to about .30-30 ballistics, which is what I shoot in my NRA Sporter.
Online
Folks, Just have to add my penny’s worth here. Statement about being too good to shoot means really too good to handle is about correct. Taking them to Cody, as an example, for display puts them at risk. Despite signs to the contrary, there are always one or two who just HAVE to touch, handle, shake, etc. Then a trip to the local range finds the one who just has to pick up something interesting off the shooting bench or out of the rack without asking. Poor manners, but it happens. Or me–getting to be more clumsy in my older years. Getting them in or out of a safe risks tapping one against the other, etc. With all that said, some years back I got a deluxe 1876 in 50 Express that is in very nice shape. I picked a week day, early in the morning when it most likely I would be the only one on the range, and fired a few mild loads through it. I now can say, “yes, I have shot it!” Ditto on a very nice, high conditon 1886 in 50-110. But I was very careful, and had anyone else been on the range they would have stayed in the truck! I have had two or three bad experiences at our range and now keep even my new manufactured rifles or shotguns in the truck until time to shoot, let alone something as attractive as an old Winchester! My take on the subject! Tim
They did make them to fire, they just also happen to look pretty at the same time!
Maverick
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tim tomlinson said
Folks, Just have to add my penny’s worth here. Statement about being too good to shoot means really too good to handle is about correct. Taking them to Cody, as an example, for display puts them at risk. Despite signs to the contrary, there are always one or two who just HAVE to touch, handle, shake, etc. Then a trip to the local range finds the one who just has to pick up something interesting off the shooting bench or out of the rack without asking. Poor manners, but it happens. Or me–getting to be more clumsy in my older years. Getting them in or out of a safe risks tapping one against the other, etc. With all that said, some years back I got a deluxe 1876 in 50 Express that is in very nice shape. I picked a week day, early in the morning when it most likely I would be the only one on the range, and fired a few mild loads through it. I now can say, “yes, I have shot it!” Ditto on a very nice, high conditon 1886 in 50-110. But I was very careful, and had anyone else been on the range they would have stayed in the truck! I have had two or three bad experiences at our range and now keep even my new manufactured rifles or shotguns in the truck until time to shoot, let alone something as attractive as an old Winchester! My take on the subject! Tim
Tim please don’t take this wrong but I just can’t think of how to say this but I just don’t worry about things as much as you and some others do. Maybe it’s because I don’t have any perfect or nearly perfect guns? I really do take care to not damage any of my guns but I still like to shoot them at least once. For whatever the reason I haven’t had a problem with people messing with my guns while at the range. Now gun shows are a different story. Since I am not a dealer I rarely take my guns to a show. I did travel with a well known dealer for about 25 years and he took a lot of high dollar Winchesters, some were in the 6 figure range, to the shows. Crazy things do happen at the shows. It’s like my collector car, during normal times I drive it a couple thousand miles a year. Some of the parts on this car took me about 6 years to find.
I like to purchase a firearm in the highest rated condition that I can afford, if that makes sense. I want to be able to shoot it once or twice, but still have one that is as close to factory condition as is reasonably possible. Little bumps and small marks do give the rifle some character. I guess that would be somewhere between a 80% to 95% condition.
November 7, 2015
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I like to take my 70-80% guns to the range. While in the safe most wear socks to prevent handling dings. I’m not as careful as I should be at times and I never want to hesitate to let someone else, especially a youngster, shoot an old Winchester. Little dings happen now and then; with these guns it won’t be the first time. Unlike gun shows my home range is mostly populated by considerate people. Asking permission to handle a weapon is a rule seldom broken.
Mike
TXGunNut said
Asking permission to handle a weapon is a rule seldom broken.
Seldom?
Chuck, First I DO NOT take your comments wrong. Not a problem. I would like to relate a short story I think you would enjoy, though. I had my 1876 display at the NRA Convention in Dallas in 2018. One item was an 1876 with the side plates removed to show the workings of its internals. There was this little old fellow who was kind of smiling and giggling, hurried into the booth and went over to promptly cycle the action several times quickly. No time for me or anyone to react. He looked over, giggled some more and scurried off. Cute! Reminded me of an escaped 2 year old. Couldn’t get upset really. Obviously he had a deep curiosity, and in reality I would have liked it had he stayed and either asked questions or allowed a narration to further what he may have known. These things do happen. Tim.
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