TXGunNut said
Inspired by responses to Bill Hanzel’s excellent “Essential” thread. 

What is YOUR “Holy Grail” of Winchester products that you seek and would possibly pay several years’ salary to obtain? Price is not a consideration in this rhetorical question. A loading tool or mould costing less than $100 qualifies as well.

Mike  

Well for starters, my “Holy Grail” loading tool or mold would cost way more than $100.00.

For the loading tool it is somewhat of a tie. A BOXED 1874 Loading Tool & Mold set would be way up there on the list. Less than a handful are known and one of the nicest sets sold at auction for over $15,000.00. Which I believe was somewhat inflated by the auction setting. But pretty recently just a 1874 Tool with the Box Top Lid Only sold for over $5,000.00.

Tied with that and slightly ahead by a nose, would be a BOXED 1888 Loading Tool & Mold set. I know of only ONE that exists and if it were to be sold. I think the seller, within reason, could ask for whatever he wanted. 

Now with bullet molds it is a whole different story all on its own. Knee jerk reaction is any non-standard caliber mold. For example, I have a 5th model mold in “45 Round” (ball) that is somewhat of a one off. But when you consider the various different calibers they made in the molds, it is hard to pin down something. I’d have to do the math, but there is something like 180-200 different calibers cherried in the molds. With some being very rare and no one knows how many they actually made of the molds and tools.

I’d say it would be more like collecting the “12 apostles” than getting the Holy Grail. That said, the 1st & 2nd model molds are pretty rare and up there. I liberally estimate there to be some 20 odd 2nd model molds that exist today. With the 1st model having 50 or so that exist in collections today. So the 2nd model in my opinion is rarer than a 1st model. But oddly enough I have a 2nd model mold and have yet to get a 1st model mold. 

After that the true “Holy Grail” would be any loading tool and/or patent tool made and only used at the Winchester Factory. One such loading tool was once owned by Lewis Yearout sold for almost $8,000.00. at auction for just the tool.

Also for me with the tools its just like the rifles, the special ones are the ones you get a really good deal on or you didn’t know what you had. Early on in collecting tools I bought a near 99% mint 1880 Tool in (50-95) Winchester Express for a $100 bill. I’ve seen guys pay up and over a $1,000.00 for such a tool.

I think on David Jones’ display he had his 1874 Tool labeled as the Holy Grail, and he’s right in a way. You don’t see them for sale that often. I still have yet to pull the trigger on one. Hopefully one day the stars will align. 

Sincerely,

Maverick

P.S. As far as the guns go, I’d have to stick with a 1 of 1000 or one of the highly finished arms from the 1897 Catalog, as I imagine they’re even rarer.

Erin Grivicich said

Gary,

One just popped up on GB. I believe his asking price is very high for the condition, especially the poorly refinished butt stock.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876547927

 

Erin  

Erin Grivicich said

Gary,

One just popped up on GB. I believe his asking price is very high for the condition, especially the poorly refinished butt stock.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876547927

 

Erin  

I have a half nickel 1890 in similar condition. I paid less than 10% of that price… 

Erin

i suspect you’re right in your assessment.

Joel Goodrich said
The first Winchester lever action I fell for was a Model 71. Since then I’ve picked up quite a few including deluxe and standard carbines. I was fortunate to land a 1936 “Deluxe” 71 with factory matted barrel a few years back (after several years of trying to purchase it). That was and is my “grail gun”. But I’ve been searching for a 71 in 33 WCF or 45/70 for longer and would consider that to be the rifle I yearn for the most. 

I had a spell where I got into 1890 Deluxe and Semi-Deluxe rifles and picked up a few of those but I always circle back to the 71. Searching more times than I’ll admit to throughout the day. 
So if any of you folks have a 71 in 33 WCF or 45/70 – shoot me a message ?  

Around 40 years ago I saw both a .33 WCF and a .45-70 offered for sale in the M71.  It may have been Ron’s Guns in Connecticut that had them.  I remember I sure wanted them.  And I surely would love to be showing them off right now.

Bert H. said

Steve,

I have only encountered (1) single Model 1886 SRC in 33 WCF.  I don’t know why they were so scarce, as it would have been a real pleasant shooting gun, with great knock-down power inside of its effective range.

Bert  

Thanks for the information Bert.  In the last 50 years, I think I have heard of one offered for sale.  It may well be the one you reference.  Interesting how they are much more rare than a High Wall in .577 Eley  😉

Maverick said

Yes that one would pair up nicely with a Model 95 SRC in .405W.C.F. 

I don’t know which one would be rarer.

Sincerely,

Maverick  

I think LeRoy Merz had a .405 SRC for sale a couple decades ago.  I’m pretty sure he never offered an ’86 .33WCF – at least to the public.  

Joel Goodrich said

I’ve chased down more leads than o can count and haven’t been lucky enough to put my hands on either chambering …YET. I’ve found a few that were supposed to be legit but turned out to be. In-factory or flat out fakes. And several more that were supposed to be 71s chambered in 33 WCF and 45/70 but we’re misidentified and turned out to be actual 1886 rifles. 

The hunt will go on. Hopefully it won’t take me 40 years!  

I didn’t have the opportunity to hold the ones I saw advertised for sale in my hands.  All I can say is they were priced as though they were original.  Who knows, had my dream come true and I had found the money to order them, they may have turned out to be fakes.  And whether I would have known at the time is an open question.  

I’ll add another Holy Grail:  Model 1892 .44/40 12 inch barreled, “Trapper” SRC.  I did have an opportunity to purchase one many years back.  I think it was James Huntley who had one among his wonderful trapper and short rifle collection.  LeRoy Merz had it after him and offered it for sale.  He didn’t list his asking price and I never called to inquire.  I knew it was out of my league.  I do recall this specimen was in particularly nice condition.  I wonder who has it now?  Seems I recall there were four 12 inchers recorded to have been made.  Of course, only about 1/3rd of the total Model 1892’s are recorded in the existing factory ledgers.