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I am currently reading “The Kelloggs: The Battling Brothers of Battle Creek”, by Howard Markel. Page 142 states the following, regarding the suicide of the Kellogg cereal manufacturers’ major competitor: “On the morning of May 9, 1914 while rummaging through his gun collection, he (Post) located a .30-30 Winchester hunting rifle, ‘placed the muzzle of the weapon in his mouth and pulled the trigger with his toe, blowing off the entire top of his head.’ ” Reference is footnote 73, which is page 12 of the New York Times from 10 May 1914. I was able to locate this primary source material, but cannot seem to attach it to this thread (but do have it in email format and can email to someone who can attach it to this thread). In any event, the “facts” as presented in this book, may not even be as such, as what is presented in quotations as a direct quote, is, by no means, a direct quote. Also, I have no idea where the author came up with the suicide weapon as being a .30-30 Winchester, as this is not mentioned in the source material. So, this may or may not be true. And, the events as presented in the book vs the NYT source material differ enough to be considered downright erroneous, as presented.
So, despite the morbid nature of this post, there is the possibility that C W Post committed suicide with a Winchester, most likely a Winchester 1894, but remotely the only other possibility might be a Winchester 1885 in .30-30. Also, it is possible that the author is well versed in firearms to understand that a .30-30 round is the modern day description of the .30 WCF, but, in my experience, few current authors, and their editors, understand virtually anything about firearms, so it is unlikely the author would know that IF the weapon was described in source materials (of which I find no evidence), that the author would realize that the calibre, as described in 1914, which would have been .30 WCF, is synonymous with .30-30.
Despite the morbid nature of the subject matter of this post, this is presented for enhancement of knowledge base, and also, especially if we are unable to definitively prove that a Winchester 1894 in .30-30 was used, that “you cannot always believe what you read”.
Comments?
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I’m not a big fan of morbid discussions but I have to ask a question about this.
As much as I didn’t care to do it I “sized up” the job with my 94, in 32 WS. There is no way that I could put the muzzle in my mouth and pull the trigger with my big toe without some work and why would I? I could position the rifle and easily use my fingers to pull the trigger.
This book was given a big rave-up on PBS Evening News a few days ago; if such sloppy research characterizes the rest of it, it didn’t deserve the publicity.
I would like to attach the original article in the New York Times to this thread. Is there someone I can email to and they can post?
I will say that there is a possibility that what is described by the author as a rifle might indeed be a carbine, which might lend more credibility to the story. Again, the footnotes provide no source material describing the weapon. I would suspect most authors today, and their editors, would describe a carbine as a rifle. Most probably could not distinguish a rifle from a shotgun.
Eagle said
Good heavens…why are we even talking about this! Who even cares?
My corn flakes will never taste the same now…
deerhunter said
My corn flakes will never taste the same now…
Read the true Kellog-Post story–it’s so surprising & fascinating it will undoubtedly make you appreciate them even more! There was a great PBS “American Experience” special on the subject several yrs ago.
I intend to try and email the author of that book and see where he got some of his “facts” regarding the weapon, claimed to be a Winchester in .30-30.
If I get a reply, it will be summarized. Stay tuned!
So he didn’t die of a heart attack mid-somersault after all? Or was that the other brother?
At least if I recall the movie correctly, that’s what happened.
Maverick
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I emailed the author of this book, Howard Markel, MD, and he responded that he was unsure where the reference to .30-30 cane from, but he would get back to me when he is back at his office in a few weeks. He said there must be a reference somewhere, as he admitted he knows very little about firearms. He also stated that the New York Times is notoriously unreliable during this time frame and that other source materials, if he recalled correctly, seemed to refer to a shotgun, which is a much more realistic choice of a weapon. He did not really address my observation that the direct quote was not identical to that in the New York Times article, so I am guessing it is a direct quote from another source and was improperly referenced.
mrcvs said
He also stated that the New York Times is notoriously unreliable during this time frame
Notoriously unreliable is exactly the way it is NOW; that is, if you expect to find “facts” uncorrupted by a radical left-wing bias.
Hi! I wanted to add a few things to the question of which weapon C.W. Post might have used to kill himself.
With no comment on the book and its sourcing, it was widely reported at the time that Post used a rifle to shoot himself. With a quick search of an online database of scanned old newspapers I came across the following papers all repeating the “rifle” part of the story:
- The Alma Record
- The Chilliocthe Gazette
- The Norwich Belletin
- Reno Gazette
- Salt Lake Telegram
- The Brooklyn Daily Eagle
- Salt Lake Telegram
- The Los Angeles Times
- The Madisonian (Richmond, Kentucky)
- The San Francisco Examiner
- The Tampa Times
- The Times Herald
- Decatur Herald (Illinois)
- Marion Star (Ohio)
- The Times Dispatch (Richmond, VA)
According the the story repeated in many of these articles – Post was a collector of firearms, but he’d started fearing that he might be suicidal a few days previous to his death. He’d request all guns removed from his home. Apparently his nurse had missed one, or Post had hidden a rifle somewhere they couldn’t find it. He was said by the papers to have indeed used his toe to pull the trigger. How on earth these newspapers could know the last detail is beyond me. I’ve copied an excerpt of some text from the Tampa Times to illustrate the story told: “The suicide occurred at Mr. Post’s winter home here. Evading a nurse he went to his apartment, placed the muzzle of a rifle in his mouth and pulled the trigger with his foot.”
This story is repeated in many more of the above listed articles. I could have kept searching and listing articles forever, there were dozens more. So I feel confident that Post killed himself, with a rifle, and that perhaps he pulled the trigger with his toe.
But which rifle was it that he used? This is really the key question here…
Only a few newspaper articles offer a suggestion of which kind of rifle Post might have used.
- The Los Angeles Times said on May 10th, 1914, that: “Post used a Winchester rifle of .40-72 caliber to carry out his death plans.
- The Madisonian, on May 12th, 1914, offers the following: “Post then went to a closet where he had a 40-72 rifle and shot and killed himself.”
- Many other papers also cite a “40-72” rifle, the Decatur Herald, the Times Dispatch and the Marion Star.
The rifle in question is then maybe a Winchester Model 1895 chambered for .40-72 WCF… (or I guess a Winchester 1885….). It’s certainly a rifle that a wealthy gun collector like Mr. Post could have owned in 1914. If we’re going with the story that he used his toe to pull the trigger, then it wouldn’t necessarily be too long of a weapon to kill ones self with….
Hope any of this helps!
Wow, Amateur Enthusiast, great detective work! It sure sounds like to me that it was very likely a Winchester 1895 being that it was chambered in .40-72.
Thanks! There isn’t much good historical writing about C.W. Post, but if you can find any I suggest reading up on the man. He was at a really interesting crossroads in the history of American business and advertising, and a crazy guy.
Amateur Enthusiast said
Hi! I wanted to add a few things to the question of which weapon C.W. Post might have used to kill himself.With no comment on the book and its sourcing, it was widely reported at the time that Post used a rifle to shoot himself. With a quick search of an online database of scanned old newspapers I came across the following papers all repeating the “rifle” part of the story:
- The Alma Record
- The Chilliocthe Gazette
- The Norwich Belletin
- Reno Gazette
- Salt Lake Telegram
- The Brooklyn Daily Eagle
- Salt Lake Telegram
- The Los Angeles Times
- The Madisonian (Richmond, Kentucky)
- The San Francisco Examiner
- The Tampa Times
- The Times Herald
- Decatur Herald (Illinois)
- Marion Star (Ohio)
- The Times Dispatch (Richmond, VA)
According the the story repeated in many of these articles – Post was a collector of firearms, but he’d started fearing that he might be suicidal a few days previous to his death. He’d request all guns removed from his home. Apparently his nurse had missed one, or Post had hidden a rifle somewhere they couldn’t find it. He was said by the papers to have indeed used his toe to pull the trigger. How on earth these newspapers could know the last detail is beyond me. I’ve copied an excerpt of some text from the Tampa Times to illustrate the story told: “The suicide occurred at Mr. Post’s winter home here. Evading a nurse he went to his apartment, placed the muzzle of a rifle in his mouth and pulled the trigger with his foot.”
This story is repeated in many more of the above listed articles. I could have kept searching and listing articles forever, there were dozens more. So I feel confident that Post killed himself, with a rifle, and that perhaps he pulled the trigger with his toe.
But which rifle was it that he used? This is really the key question here…
Only a few newspaper articles offer a suggestion of which kind of rifle Post might have used.
- The Los Angeles Times said on May 10th, 1914, that: “Post used a Winchester rifle of .40-72 caliber to carry out his death plans.
- The Madisonian, on May 12th, 1914, offers the following: “Post then went to a closet where he had a 40-72 rifle and shot and killed himself.”
- Many other papers also cite a “40-72” rifle, the Decatur Herald, the Times Dispatch and the Marion Star.
The rifle in question is then maybe a Winchester Model 1895 chambered for .40-72 WCF… (or I guess a Winchester 1885….). It’s certainly a rifle that a wealthy gun collector like Mr. Post could have owned in 1914. If we’re going with the story that he used his toe to pull the trigger, then it wouldn’t necessarily be too long of a weapon to kill ones self with….
Hope any of this helps!
Would you mind sharing the website? I would like to research other areas.
Hey Chuck! Sorry for the long delay on replying.
I use a site called Newspapers.com. It has a ~$70/6 month subscription, so it’s not quite cheap. However if you want it for a quick use I believe it has a free week trial or something. It’s very easy to use – you can search whatever terms you want and limit it to what state, year, etc.
I’d also recommend your local library for the free version – they often have access to proquest or other newspaper databases for free. Sometimes you can even search it all at home with a library card. Depending on your library you might find old archives of the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Chicago Tribune, or who knows what else.
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