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February 18, 2021 - 10:37 pm
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Hello all,

So after years of collecting data on the Model 61 and Model 1892 rifles it is getting to that time when it needs to be organized, synthesized and made more readily known to you guys.  The collecting public.  There is always the allure of sitting by the fire with a cocktail and reading a book about our hobby but I am also interested in hearing your input and thoughts about creating a website that would contain the results of the effort.  My feeling is that it would be much simpler to get information to MANY more people and would be exceedingly easier to update and expand than trying to put out later versions of a book.  So please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

Michael

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February 18, 2021 - 10:59 pm
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The day after a book is published, the author often discovers new info he wished he could have included.  Then, how do you publicize the book to make collectors aware of its existence?  No more are there pubs like Gun List & Shotgun News in which a cheap ad can be placed.  Best way to publicize a book is through a website, but the website must come first.

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February 18, 2021 - 11:10 pm
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clarence said
The day after a book is published, the author often discovers new info he wished he could have included.  Then, how do you publicize the book to make collectors aware of its existence?  No more are there pubs like Gun List & Shotgun News in which a cheap ad can be placed.  Best way to publicize a book is through a website, but the website must come first.  

This is an “either/or” endeavor.  The website will basically be the book with all information and discussion that would normally be in a book but rather accessible vie the web.

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February 18, 2021 - 11:24 pm
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I like books, Michael. I’m proud of my little library and I’ve enjoyed many hours improving my knowledge or researching the answer to a question. I realize an electronic version will have numerous advantages and a broader appeal, may even work better as a research tool depending on how it is organized. There’s something about picking up a new (or old) book at the post office. It makes my day in ways that a site visit never will. 

 

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February 18, 2021 - 11:53 pm
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twobit said
Hello all,

So after years of collecting data on the Model 61 and Model 1892 rifles it is getting to that time when it needs to be organized, synthesized and made more readily known to you guys.  The collecting public.  There is always the allure of sitting by the fire with a cocktail and reading a book about our hobby but I am also interested in hearing your input and thoughts about creating a website that would contain the results of the effort.  My feeling is that it would be much simpler to get information to MANY more people and would be exceedingly easier to update and expand than trying to put out later versions of a book.  So please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

Michael  

Michael – I think your instincts are in tune with the times. I like books too but there is nothing wrong with sitting by the fire on a cold Alaska night, sipping on a few ounces of Canadian blend and reading about your research on my laptop – that is the reality of the world we now live in. Burt

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February 18, 2021 - 11:58 pm
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I would assume the book route would cost more money even if you had it printed and bound like a spiral book which you would have to recoup the cost. The online would be cheaper unless you had to hire a IT or programmer to make a web site if its a interactive type thing. Depending on how much information a PDF is real handy especially if your using the info at a gun show to decide if a gun is legit.

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February 19, 2021 - 12:49 am
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TXGunNut said
I like books, Michael.

So do I, & I’ve probably got about 2000 to prove it.  I’m usually pulling down one or more every day to check up on various things I’m considering; today it was ’03 Springfield bayonets.  (Complicated subject, by the way.)  I would HATE to be forced to go looking for this info on the internet!  (And probably getting a lot of bogus info if I did.)

But Michael was asking about what course would be the simplest & most practical & would reach most collectors.

Consider all the questions asked here about Model 69s.  Yet there is now a superb book available on that subject, JWA’s, but the folks asking the questions know nothing about it.

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February 19, 2021 - 2:16 am
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Your question (dilemma) is one that I have wrestled with as well.  In the end, I chose the paper document because the target audience was more receptive to it.  It is easier to carry a book to the gun show, and flip it open to read it while sitting at a table at said show.  While there are those that undoubtedly would prefer the technology aspect of having an e-book, the majority of the current collectors are not comfortable using Tablets, Kindles, or Laptops.

Regardless of which direction you ultimately decide to take, we are all looking forward to reading it!

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February 19, 2021 - 1:07 pm
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As a selfish point of view I’d say website:-

Although I love reading books the postage to get books from American costs more than the book, agree that the majority of people interested in the information you have collated will live in US/Canada their are a lot of others in the rest of the world that are interested in the book.

as of all things on the internet if someone needs information they can print their own Copy for a fee ?

looking forward to what ever format you choose 

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February 19, 2021 - 1:42 pm
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Michael,

I prefer books, but can understand the ease of updates using the web.  Why not a hybrid approach? Initial offering in hardcopy book form, then when it comes time to revise, offer the revisions in .pdf format.  Bob Renneberg has done this with his model 94 book. I think he offered two revisions in .pdf format.

Al

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February 19, 2021 - 2:36 pm
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I was not aware of the PDF available for the Model 1894 book.  How does one access this information.  My computer skills are limited to being “self taught”.  You know the old “Blind leading the blind” adage.  Thanks for posting.  RDB

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February 19, 2021 - 4:40 pm
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Michael-

Interesting question.  I’ve thought about this myself and have come to no firm conclusions.  One thing I’ve read a little about was this thing in the electronic publishing arena called “print on demand”.  As I understand it, the author/publisher create a “book” in pdf format, with all the page layout and graphics done in a professional style worthy of print medium.  Like the electronic version of the Winchester Collector.  Get the ISBN number assigned to you, the author, not a publishing company, so you retain copyright.

But instead of then having 1000 copies printed (up front $$$ and a ton of book boxes sitting in your study until they’re sold), you make it available as “print on demand”.  This would probably require a website, but not an elaborate one.  Mostly a place where prospective reader can go to purchase and download the book in response to an advertisement they see, for example in the Winchester Collector.  

If this turns out to be feasible the advantages would be:

–  The ebook format would be easier to update, e.g. “The Model 92 Winchester v1.0”, “The Model 92 Winchester v2.0”, etc. As long as you are comfortable with “desktop publishing”, i.e. doing the page layout yourself, production costs would be much lower and updates more frequent.

– You don’t have a page limit, like you might encounter working with a publisher on a traditional book.  Some people absorb information best from text, others from tables, still others from graphics.  The more pictures and the more color the better.  These add a lot to production costs in print, but as far as I know “color” electrons don’t cost any more than “B&W” electrons.  You can also provide higher resolution in electronic format.

– An electronically distributed book could be much less expensive for the end user, hence reach a wider audience.  I wouldn’t make it “free”, in that sales of the ebook (fee for download) can help offset some of the cost of production (if you employed professional help) and maintaining the portal (website) for distribution.  But paying $19.95 for the definitive work on the M61 is a lot less painful than paying Amazon $350.00 for a tattered used copy of your masterpiece 10+ years from now when the 1000 copies are out of print.

– The ebook has a degree of “permanence” in that it can be downloaded and saved (or printed).  I don’t view information on a “website” as in any way permanent.  If somebody takes down the site then the information is lost to the future.  If Clarence (and I) want a hard copy, we can have one printed and bound (on whatever paper with whatever binding we choose to pay for).  If limestone (and I) want the electronic version so we can check back to see your latest revisions, we can do that.  Heck, you could even sell a “subscription” to the book, such that purchasing V1.0 entitles the reader to a free download of version 2.0.

– OTOH… There is some information that you might want to make public that cannot be provided in print format.  I’m thinking about your ever evolving survey data.  If you were going to share that sort of information, it needs to be in a format, like Excel, that can be sorted/searched.  That would either have to be web-based or possibly provided as an “appendix” on the ebook disc (???).

I will stop rambling now Wink… I’m curious to hear the experience/perspective of other WACA members who have published books (paper or digital) in the last decade or two.

Best,

Lou

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February 19, 2021 - 5:32 pm
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tionesta1 said
Michael,

I prefer books, but can understand the ease of updates using the web.  Why not a hybrid approach? Initial offering in hardcopy book form, then when it comes time to revise, offer the revisions in .pdf format.  Bob Renneberg has done this with his model 94 book. I think he offered two revisions in .pdf format.

Al  

One of the founding fathers of a car club I belong to published a book.  Later he offered addendums.  Now he has PDF updates.  I like having the book and the PDF’s are really nice.  When a book is also on a computer file it is so much easier to print what you want and in my case drag it out to the garage when I’m working on the car.

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February 20, 2021 - 3:19 am
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rogertherelic said
I was not aware of the PDF available for the Model 1894 book.  How does one access this information.  My computer skills are limited to being “self taught”.  You know the old “Blind leading the blind” adage.  Thanks for posting.  RDB  

Roger,

Bob did an addendum in 2015, and 2016 if I remember correctly. He updated certain chapters and subjects with more current information and data. He  posted an alert here on the forum for anyone wanting to purchase. I believe you can contact him and he will make them available to you.  I’ll try to find his posts on the subject.

Al

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February 20, 2021 - 3:30 am
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tionesta1 said

Roger,

Bob did an addendum in 2015, and 2016 if I remember correctly. He updated certain chapters and subjects with more current information and data. He  posted an alert here on the forum for anyone wanting to purchase. I believe you can contact him and he will make them available to you.  I’ll try to find his posts on the subject.

Al  

I found it Roger.

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-swap-meet/winchester-189494-book-addendum/

Al

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February 20, 2021 - 7:40 am
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Than you Al.  Seems I may have missed the boat.  I do have both editions of Mr. Renneberg’s books so that would be nice to have.  I will check into what might be obtainable.  RDB

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February 20, 2021 - 12:34 pm
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twobit said
Hello all,

So after years of collecting data on the Model 61 and Model 1892 rifles it is getting to that time when it needs to be organized, synthesized and made more readily known to you guys.  The collecting public.  There is always the allure of sitting by the fire with a cocktail and reading a book about our hobby but I am also interested in hearing your input and thoughts about creating a website that would contain the results of the effort.  My feeling is that it would be much simpler to get information to MANY more people and would be exceedingly easier to update and expand than trying to put out later versions of a book.  So please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

Michael  

Looking forward to reading it Michael in whatever form you decide. Personally I like a book but website access cannot be ignored in this day & age. Maybe both somehow can come to fruition.

RickC

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February 20, 2021 - 3:14 pm
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I would say book, but if your doing two separate books, try one in each. 1892 in book form and model 61 in web form. Nothing against the model 61, an 1892 book to would sure look good next to all the other the other Winchester publications. Whatever happens, I will be reading them either way, and good luck in the process.

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February 20, 2021 - 4:55 pm
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 Michael-

If you go the hard copy route are you considering a book on the 61 or the 1892? I can’t imagine the work entailed in publishing two books at once and as there is little common ground a book about both makes little sense…even though most of us would probably buy it. If you do one at first it could be years until you publish the second one. I think if you carefully define your goals the answer may be clearer. 

 

Mike

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February 20, 2021 - 11:04 pm
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I like .pdf format or an e-book on AWS.  They’re editable by the author and searchable by the users. I have downloaded several .pdfs and e-books and take the tablet to local gun stores, pawn shops, etc.  Makes it easy to search for something specific in the car, while contemplating a purchase.  It’s also handy to show a seller so they understand my position when it comes to originality, scarcity (everything is rare, right?), etc…  That being said, I have two copies of The Red Book- one for the car and one for the office.    Regards, Ron

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