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Cody Records
October 31, 2013
7:24 am
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When warehouse records are available with date shipped do they ever include who the gun was shipped to?

October 31, 2013
8:07 am
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All of mine show the number of other guns shipped and the order number but no name or address. I have heard, however, that records do exist showing where some orders were shipped, like Salt Lake, Utah, or Whatever, Texas, etc. I’m sure the experts here will flesh out the answer more accurately.

October 31, 2013
10:20 am
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As a percentage of the whole (all of the records for all of the models), the percentage of the warehouse ledger records that have any information indicating the shipping destination is very minuscule.

For the late production Model 1873s, and the late production Model 1886s, the records do show where a particular gun was shipped. For the Model 21 shotgun, the shipping information is available for nearly all of them.

For the Model 1885 (109,999 total serial number records), fewer than (100) of them have shipping information listed. Based on what I have seen in the warehouse records for all of the other models, they are consistent with the Model 1885 records.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
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October 31, 2013
11:11 am
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Out of 12 searches , the only one showing shipping destination for me was an 86 Dom 1919, to a Canadian hardware store, as per Berts Info

Phils-Schuetzen-compressed.jpg 

October 31, 2013
12:47 pm
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Thank you all very much for the information provided.

October 31, 2013
5:52 pm
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Is the 86 a 38-56 as I have seen 1 sent to Mtl
Meanea

25-20 said
Out of 12 searches , the only one showing shipping destination for me was an 86 Dom 1919, to a Canadian hardware store, as per Berts Info

October 31, 2013
6:38 pm
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Ontario Canada
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The 86 is 33 win rifle butt, full mag, sent to Hamilton Ont

Phils-Schuetzen-compressed.jpg 

October 31, 2013
8:17 pm
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Would there have been some sort of "Order Ledger" or "Sales Ledger" that would have tied the order numbers mentioned in the Shipping Ledger to where the gun was shipped?

Otherwise how would the shipping department now where to send the gun?

And if there was such ledgers, how come no one (or entity) has any of them or at the very least one part or at least one page?

Sincerely,
Maverick

October 31, 2013
8:30 pm
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We have the warehouse ledgers today because when there was a fire in the office the warehouse didn’t burn.

Bob

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Email: bob.1873man@gmail.com

October 31, 2013
9:13 pm
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Kingston, WA
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maverick said
Would there have been some sort of "Order Ledger" or "Sales Ledger" that would have tied the order numbers mentioned in the Shipping Ledger to where the gun was shipped?

Otherwise how would the shipping department now where to send the gun?

And if there was such ledgers, how come no one (or entity) has any of them or at the very least one part or at least one page?

Sincerely,
Maverick

Good question, and like you, if such records had existed, one would think that at least a small shred of them would have survived. Thus far, I have not ever heard of, or ever seen evidence of a "shipping records ledger"

Bert

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November 1, 2013
6:10 am
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I can’t remember where but I recall reading about people finding documents on the other end (i.e. retailers or wholesalers?) who purchased many guns from Winchester or Colt.

It might be an interesting research project for someone with time on their hands. If any such records exist in storage somewhere you might not only find the order to Winchester, but possibly the shipping/packing statements from Winchester (which might include ledgers) and maybe even the retailer’s/wholesaler’s records of who the guns were sold to.

Records could also be stashed away from old audits, litigation and who knows what else. I’m sure most have been destroyed, but you never know, especially if the entity is still a going concern.

If I had the inclination, I’d start close to home, researching outfits that sold guns.

November 1, 2013
6:48 am
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"road king"
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November 1, 2013
7:29 am
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I’d have to look at some reference material to be certain but I believe the rifle above may have been recorded on those 3×5 type ledger cards. Gordon and I believe Ed Lewis talks about them in their books. Generally these type cards held more information than the older standard ledger entry. But yet again I’m uncertain of the serial range that this became standard. It was very late in production though.

I think it would be a neat research project to undertake to see what is available on the receiving end and which companies would still have records of receiving winchesters or like firearm companies. One company I can think of that I know is still around that sold Winchester and sporting goods is Abercrombie & Fitch (since 1892). They sure have made a change of the years. One has to wonder if they kept any such records but I find it doubtful.

One also has to remember that the various Winchester departments kept their own records for various reasons. Case in point is the Polishing department. I think in time more light will be shed in collectors favor. Given a little hard elbow grease and patience.

Can anybody think of any other retail type companies that are still around in one form or fashion that sold Winchesters Pre & Post 1900?

Sincerely,
Maverick

November 1, 2013
7:47 am
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maverick said
Can anybody think of any other retail type companies that are still around in one form or fashion that sold Winchesters Pre & Post 1900?

Sincerely,
Maverick

Maybe Sears, or J.C. Penny, or Gambles, or Golden Rule? I’ve seen hardware stores in small town America, out west, that claim to have been in business since the late 1800s. Most are downtown in old "blocks" with those 14 foot ceilings and second or third stories full of old stuff. Fire traps, some of them. In towns with a future, that stuff get’s taken to the dump. But in some "dying" town (mountains or great plains), it just sits up there getting eaten by rats.

Some of these modern franchises bought out pre-existing hardware stores. And even if the company is big and sophisticated, the local store in the small town could be run/owned in a mom and pop fashion.

Just think, most folks could care less if you wanted to look through paper work from way back. Just tell them the truth and they’d probably roll their eyes and say have at it, as long as you take it to the land fill when your done.

P.S. And while you are looking for, and not finding any Winchester stuff, you are tossing aside some gem that some other poor sap would kill for. Maybe a ledger for the order of spoons from the XYZ company. And he was in the next building a month ago, tossing aside the Winchester stuff for an order of 1873s shipped to the XIT ranch. Laugh

November 1, 2013
11:28 am
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Well, there is a start with that 1873 Carbine and Letter.
Anybody that has a Winchester Letter with that Order Number, but no Destination knows that it was shipped to the Hudson Bay Company.

The Process is started, now just keep a Record of the known Order Numbers and Listed Destination. For your own purposes if nothing else.

Enjoy the Weekend.

"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"

"Instead of The Space Age"

From

 The Twilight Zone

 

November 1, 2013
11:46 am
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"road king"
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I posted this a few years ago that has information of some of the A&F records.

http://www.winchestercollector.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4607&highlight=

Here is the link to
Researching the Abercrombie & Fitch and Von Lengerke & Detmold Sales Records

http://www.griffinhowe.com/research-main.cfm

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