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94' Saddle Ring Eastern Carbine
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September 16, 2017 - 10:42 pm
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     What are the differences or how do you differentiate a standard 94′ from an Eastern carbine.  I was reading and they call the eastern carbine a saddle ring eastern carbine but it doesn’t have a saddle ring?  I bought one today and if I was not told it was an eastern I would have thought its a standard 94′.  I’ll post some pictures in a bit.      

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September 17, 2017 - 12:39 am
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There is no such thing as a “Saddle Ring Eastern Carbine”.  It is either a Saddle Ring Carbine (SRC), or it is an “Eastern” Carbine, but it cannot be both.

The following is a brief history of the Model 94 “Eastern” Carbines.

Winchester introduced the Model 1894 in October of 1894. The first guns that were manufactured were all Sporting Rifles (26-inch octagon, ½ octagon, or round barrels). Shortly after production began, the Saddle Ring Carbine (SRC) was introduced (serial number 46). The SRC featured a 20-inch round (only) barrel, and a saddle ring attached to the left rear side of the receiver frame.

Saddle rings were standard equipment on all Carbines manufactured from November 1894 through March of 1932, though on special order, the ring could be omitted (for an extra $.50 charge). In April of 1932, Winchester decided to omit the saddle ring as a standard item, but it could be installed as a special order item through August of 1942 (again at an extra price charge).

Prior to the decision to omit the saddle ring as a standard item, Winchester began (in 1928) manufacturing large batches of Carbines without a saddle ring installed (at no extra charge). Those Carbines that were intentionally made without the saddle ring were intended for sale in the eastern part of the country, hence the term “Eastern” Carbine. Winchester never referred to them that way. The name “Eastern” was coined by the collecting community. The Carbines intended for western shipment still had saddle rings on them. By the year 1929, approximately 50% of the Carbine production consisted of “Eastern” Carbines. The period of time of 1928 – 1932 was a transitional period that resulted in the phasing out of the traditional saddle ring.

Eastern Carbines are not rare or even uncommon. Some collectors and dealers seem to believe they are worth more $$$, but I disagree. What is worth a slight premium, is a pre-1928 Carbine with no saddle ring, especially those made in the real early years that can be lettered.

Bert

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September 17, 2017 - 12:41 am
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I’ve always understood that the Saddle Ring Carbine has the hole drilled on the left side of the frame for said saddle ring and that it comes installed from the factory.  The Eastern carbines don’t have the saddle ring nor the hole drilled in the receiver.

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September 17, 2017 - 1:25 am
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Wincacher said
I’ve always understood that the Saddle Ring Carbine has the hole drilled on the left side of the frame for said saddle ring and that it comes installed from the factory.  The Eastern carbines don’t have the saddle ring nor the hole drilled in the receiver.  

That is a true statement if you are referring to a pre 1932 Model 94 Carbine.

Bert

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September 17, 2017 - 1:54 am
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Thanks for the info.  Very informative Mr. Bert.  So an Eastern carbine, as collectors coined them, are carbines made prior to March of 1932 without a saddle ring.  Mine is #1081197 so it falls into this definition.  Thanks again for the info.

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September 17, 2017 - 2:23 am
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Here are pictures of the 94′ I bought today.  The “Eastern Carbine”.

                    eastern-carbine-7-1.JPGImage Enlargereastern-carbine-1-1.JPGImage Enlargereastern-carbine-2-1.JPGImage Enlargereastern-carbine-3-1.JPGImage Enlargereastern-carbine-4-1.JPGImage Enlargereastern-carbine-5-1.JPGImage Enlargereastern-carbine-6-1.JPGImage Enlarger     

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September 17, 2017 - 2:27 am
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Winchester nut said
Thanks for the info.  Very informative Mr. Bert.  So an Eastern carbine, as collectors coined them, are carbines made prior to March of 1932 without a saddle ring.  Mine is #1081197 so it falls into this definition.  Thanks again for the info.  

Your Carbine is a very late production “Eastern”.  In my survey, serial number 1082787 is one of the very last SRCs made (4/13/1932). 

Bert

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September 17, 2017 - 3:35 am
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Bert,

FYI, I have SN 1081730 in 30 W.C.F. and it is an Eastern carbine.

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September 17, 2017 - 3:58 am
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Wincacher said
Bert,

FYI, I have SN 1081730 in 30 W.C.F. and it is an Eastern carbine.  

The highest serial numbered “Eastern” Carbine in my survey is serial number 1083790.  In the 1082562 – 1083799 range the SRC/Eastern Carbines are intermixed with the new “Sporting Carbines” with the Proof Steel barrels and the ramp front sights.  At serial number 1083400, the Sporting Carbine takes over, and became standard.

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September 17, 2017 - 6:03 pm
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Just curious…has anyone ever seen a photo or painting showing a cowboy, hunter, or other civilian horseman, wearing anything similar to the kind of shoulder strap issued to US cavalrymen for use with Trapdoor saddle-ring carbines?  Or read some period account of the same?  What is common, on the other hand, are period images of lever-actions carried in scabbards or slung across the pommel.  The many saddle-ring carbines that are now missing their rings suggest that it was often regarded as a useless and noisy appendage, which is my opinion also; Eastern hunters must have realized that.

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September 17, 2017 - 10:57 pm
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Like this?

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September 17, 2017 - 11:37 pm
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Wincacher said
Like this?
 
   

Exactly.  Notice also the short leather boot, about a foot long, on the right side of the trooper’s saddle; his carbine was stuck into that while riding.

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September 18, 2017 - 12:13 am
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There’s a sculpture @ CFM entitled Cavalry Charge (?) and one of the soldiers has the strap securing his carbine.

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September 18, 2017 - 12:19 am
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clarence said

Exactly.  Notice also the short leather boot, about a foot long, on the right side of the trooper’s saddle; his carbine was stuck into that while riding.  

Now I see it.  Must have been a genuine b**l buster at full gallop when attempting to leap onto the bad guy and throw him off his horse (like in the movies).

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September 18, 2017 - 1:35 am
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TXGunNut said
There’s a sculpture @ CFM entitled Cavalry Charge (?) and one of the soldiers has the strap securing his carbine.  

This rig was frequently shown by the best Western painters, but never, so far as I’ve seen, except in depictions of the US Cavalry. 

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September 18, 2017 - 6:59 pm
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clarence said

This rig was frequently shown by the best Western painters, but never, so far as I’ve seen, except in depictions of the US Cavalry.   

Went back for another look, appears to be a Spencer. Even more of a moot point but still interesting.

 

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September 18, 2017 - 10:50 pm
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Didn’t know if you guys saw this topic post a while back, but thought you might find it interesting as a similar topic was discussed there.

how-were-they-carried?

Sincerely,

Maverick

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September 19, 2017 - 12:08 am
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Maverick said
Didn’t know if you guys saw this topic post a while back, but thought you might find it interesting as a similar topic was discussed there.

how-were-they-carried?

Sincerely,

Maverick  

I never saw it, so thanks for posting it, though from much viewing of Old West photos & paintings (used to visit the Amon Carter Museum twice/yr for many years), I’m familiar with all the carrying methods illustrated.  When I sold off all my nice ’92s & ’94s some years ago, the only one I kept was a beat-up ’94 rifle with that unmistakable wear on the fore-arm caused by being carried a long time across a saddle’s pommel in the kind of short leather sling depicted in the Remington painting–it, or a very similar one, is one of the many Remingtons in the Carter Museum.

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September 19, 2017 - 2:23 am
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clarence said

I never saw it, so thanks for posting it, though from much viewing of Old West photos & paintings (used to visit the Amon Carter Museum twice/yr for many years), I’m familiar with all the carrying methods illustrated.  When I sold off all my nice ’92s & ’94s some years ago, the only one I kept was a beat-up ’94 rifle with that unmistakable wear on the fore-arm caused by being carried a long time across a saddle’s pommel in the kind of short leather sling depicted in the Remington painting–it, or a very similar one, is one of the many Remingtons in the Carter Museum.  

Well if you from the Fort Worth area I would imagine it wouldn’t be to much of stretch for you to visit Shreveport, LA every once in a while.

If you ever get the chance to go the R.W. Norton Art Gallery you should. It has some of nicest works of Frederic Remington, Russell and other western art in the country, granted its not the largest museum, but it is worth the trip. All the pieces are originals, worth in the millions and far as I know if not in the billions. Those bronzes would catch a nice price on the open market. Mr. Norton was an oil man that loved western art. The museum has been open since the 60s and is actually one of the nice little known gems of Shreveport. As far as I know it is the nicest museum with western art of its kind that is open to the general public with Free Admission. There is also a small gun collection in it. Mrs. Norton collected Dolls and there is an 40 Acre Azaleas Garden to keep your wife or girl friend busy while you zone out in the Artwork.

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Sincerely,

Maverick

P.S. You can come and lose some of your money at the casinos whiles your at it. Or just mail it to them if your smart!

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September 19, 2017 - 3:10 am
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Maverick said

Well if you from the Fort Worth area I would imagine it wouldn’t be to much of stretch for you to visit Shreveport, LA every once in a while…  

Actually, at the time–which was MANY yrs ago–I lived closer to Shreveport (70 m.) than Ft. Worth, and visited the Norton Gallery several times; a particular favorite of mine was their complete set of Audubon’s Birds of America, which I’ve never seen in any other museum.  But since the Ft. Worth gun show was held in a municipal bldg. only about 100 yds from Amon Carter, and I was going there twice a yr anyway, I always walked across the road to visit it after some time in the show, for which 2-3 hrs. was generally quite sufficient.  (If it’s still being held, I’ll bet an hour would be quite sufficient.)

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