1894 mould|General Discussions & Questions|Forum|Winchester Collector

Ken,

If you can post pictures it would help a lot or contact “Maverick” by PM, he has been doing research on the tools. Go to the bottom of the page under Top Posters and you find his profile with a link to PM him.

Bob

Ken emailed me the following.

Brady, the mould arrived today.  The condition is better than described.  I got it on eBay from a reseller who had it and 200 dishes and knic-knacks listed.

I am not a site member so I cannot post pictures.  I would appreciate if you could post the pictures for the others benefit.

I have been off and on looking for a 30 cal mould to go with a 30-30 reloading tool, that was the reason for browsing eBay.  I can say I have found about every caliber mould Winchester made except the 30. My personal interest is the Ideal line, and there is no lack of oddities and mysteries there.

I appreciate any help you can provide with this mystery.

Ken

Dear Ken,

You have a Winchester 5^th Type Bullet Mold in .30 Government Short Range (30 Gov. S.R.), also known as .30 U.S. ARMY and .30-40 Krag. From my on-going research I date that the 5^th type Bullet Mold was manufactured from 1888 to the 1920s. The mold is to be used with reloading short range cartridges with the Model 1894 Reloading Tool chambered in .30 Gov. S.R. The Winchester Model 1895 Rifle was chambered for .30-40 Krag, as well as other calibers.

Below are pictures of the .30Gov S.R. mold that casts a 100grs bullet that I have in my collection. It has a minor nick on the cavity of the mold, but otherwise is all original with some bluing lose.

Your bullet mold has been modified, the additional pointed cavity was cut by someone after it left the factory and is not factory work. A couple of signs of this work is the loss of bluing in the area around the cavity. Also the mold itself will technically not function as it is supposed to be designed for.  With the sprue cutter closed there is no way to pour lead into the additional cavity. Obviously the sprue cutter is supposed to cut the excess sprue off when opening the mold up. Someone was apparently just messing around with it. Even in its current configuration it will still cast a good bullet. But obviously with this modification it loses some of its collectable value.

Short Range cartridges were introduced in late 1896, and are 1^st mentioned in the Dec. 1896 Catalog under the cartridge loadings list. The Dec. 1896 catalog lists short range cartridges for the .30wcf, 25-35wcf, 32-40wcf, and 38-55wcf.  In the next catalog of March 1897, they are also listed in the Reloading Tool section of the catalog for the Model 1894 Loading Tool. The .30 Gov Short Range was also added in the March 1897 catalog. It is listed as .30 ARMY and loaded using 10grs powder and a 150grs Bullet.

The Nov. 1897 catalog again lists  30 ARMY loaded using 10grs powder and 150grs Bullet. The March 1898 catalog however lists 30 ARMY loaded using a 100grs Bullet. This listing lasts until the 1916 Catalog. The 1918 catalog no longer lists a SHORT RANGE loading for .30 ARMY, only the standard loadings. I’m currently uncertain whether or not Winchester produced the 5^th Type Mold in both a 150grs version and 100grs version for the .30 Gov. S.R.  It may have merely been a typo in the catalogs, but then again it may have not. I have yet to find a .30 Gov. S.R. mold that casts a 150 grs bullet. But I don’t rule it out either. If there was a 150 grs cherried version of the mold, it would be somewhat rare, as having only been produced for one year.

All that said, you mentioned looking for a .30 Cal mould to go with a 30-30 reloading tool. The proper mold would then be one marked and cherried for .30wcf S.R. as it would have gone with the 1894 Reloading Tool in .30wcf or .30wcf S.R. The October 1898 catalog has an added statement in the reloading tool section. “Bullet Molds, except for Short Range bullets, cannot be furnished for .30wcf, .25-35wcf, or .30ARMY.” Most avid Winchester Reloading Tool collectors believe no bullet molds were actually produced by Winchester in .30 caliber, other than the .30Gov.S.R. and .30wcfS.R. molds.

The .30wcfS.R. molds can be found cherried with a Round Nose that casts 100grs. Or found cherried with a Flat Nose that casts 117grs bullet. The transition from 100 to 117grs for the cartridge loadings took place in 1904, and I believe the same practice was done for the bullet molds. These two variations can only be determined upon looking at the mold cavity, as the outside of the mold is marked the same. I have one of each variation in my collection. See photos below.

Exact same caliber markings.117grs on Left, 100grs on right.

Even though most collectors believe that Winchester did not produce bullet molds in .30 Caliber, other than the .30Gov.S.R. and .30wcfS.R. molds. There is some hope for there being a slim possibility a few molds were made / cherried strictly for .30wcf. I have yet to find one solely for .30wcf and not being the Short Range variation. If they were produced, just like the .30 Gov S.R. in 150grs, it would have only been for a very short timeframe and would be a rare mold. I state this due to my research finding a mention of a factory drawing for a “.30 Winchester Center Fire” cherry. But the drawing itself also I have yet to locate, and doubt I ever will.

Winchester .30 Caliber S.R. molds in general themselves are not overly easy to locate.

So if you want the proper mold, I would try and find a .30wcfS.R. mold. And not the .30GovS.R. mold that you have.

Sincerely,

Maverick

P.S. This older forum post regarding .30wcf short range cartridges may also be a good read for you.

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shooting-and-hunting/30-w-c-f-short-range-cartridges-1896-1924-and-their-replications/

I noticed some of the original photos can’t be seen, as they are no longer on photobucket. Also there is a .Pdf I made using the forum’s “print this post” feature, back when it was originally posted. See it at the bottom of the attachments.