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I have a very fine 1873 made in 1891 with a “B” stamped after the serial number on the bottom tank. Is there any way I can determine when the Company installed the new barrel? Bill
Bill,
What indications do you see that it has a new barrel? The B in the serial number does not mean a replacement barrel. Is there any proof marks on the barrel or receiver? If you post pictures of the barrel marking would help in telling what era the barrel was made. When 73’s came out they had just a plain serial numbers then in 1882 they started adding the A and then it changed to a B. The B started in about 1884 and intermixed with the A’s into 1885 and continued until to the end of production with the B.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Well thanks for the correction. I understood the “B” indicated the rifle had received a replacement barrel. I can’t give you the barrel markings this instant as I put it back in storage, but I have no other reason to believe it has a replacement barrel, and the barrel includes the Kings Improvement patent data stamped on it. Accordingly, it appears that the gun is original. An interesting feature is that this rifle has an original Marble Flexible Joint tang peep sight installed and stamped MSA Co. with the October, 1903 patent date and has a circle and post front sight to match up with the peep sight. Also has beautiful wood. Bill N
Bill,
Sound like a nice gun. What is the configuration of the gun? Did you letter it yet?
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob: It is in excellent shape, other than the dust cover is loose and does not return to the forward or closed position when the lever is worked. It is a straight stock rifle with a 24″ barrel. I am attempting to add photos but it’s my first time here and this is an experiment. Bill
Bill,
There is nothing wrong with the dust cover they don’t close by themselves on a 73. The front sight is a Lyman #5 and you have some nice figure to the wood. The receiver looks like it might of been color case hardened at one time. My guess it was a special order rifle. You should get it lettered. Is it 38 caliber?
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob wrote:
The receiver looks like it might of been color case hardened at one time. My guess it was a special order rifle. You should get it lettered.
I agree with Bob. The fact that the re is not the slightest hint of any bluing in the creases and protected areas, in addition to the receiver being the same color as the hammer and lever, which were case hardened, points to the receiver having an original case hardened finish. It would have looked like the attached photos.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
I have received initial information but not the final letter. You experts are correct; it does have the case hardened receiver but also is listed as having a 26 inch barrel. My barrel measures 23 1/2 to the receiver. I presume it is a 24″ and that the measurement goes another 1/2′ into the receiver. The barrel is stamped “Winchester Repeating Arms New Haven, Conn. U.S.A.” and has the Kings Improvement Patented March 29, 1866 October 16, 1860 and has 32WCF on the side next to the receiver. On the top octagonal it has the oval with a W and the line through the oval. The bore looks excellent with very good rifiling. Am I measuring the barrel length correctly? Bill N
Bill,
The barrel is measured to include the threaded part in the receiver. What does the information you got say about caliber? If it was a 26″ and cut down 2″ then you will either see a extra dovetail on the bottom of the barrel in front of the magazine band or if that was not moved then the mag band will be too close to the end of the barrel. The center mag band should be about 3.75″ from the muzzle. Just looking at the picture of the end of the barrel it does look like the mag band is too close to the end of the barrel but since the picture is taken at a angle its hard to judge distances.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob: Initial info is caliber 32-20 and that is correct. The center of the magazine band is exactly 3.75 inches from the end of the muzzle. I believe I have a replacement 24″ barrel. Bill
Biil,
Since you have the proof mark on the barrel and a later style barrel, it was replaced. Does the receiver have a proof mark as well?
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob: There is no proof mark on the receiver. Tell me, as a historian, how in the world did a person owning an 1873 Winchester consider obtaining a replacement barrel? I don’t doubt it as it is obviously a replacement barrel; I just can’t imagine going to the trouble of sending my rifle back to Winchester in the 1890’s to have the barrel replaced. Also, with the Kings improvement patent marks on the barrel, do you have any idea what vintage this barrel might be. I thank you for all of your valuable information. I have corresponded with the President/Owner of Marble Arms who wants to buy this rifle. I have a problem of deciding what Winchesters to collect; there are so many choices and possibilities. I love the .22’s as it brings me back to my rabbit hunting days in the middle of Kansas when I shot many with my 62A which is still in almost perfect condition, even after climbing over many barbed-wire fences. I have acquired other popular 22’s, including a 61 in its original 1940 box and a 63 with a correct box. I also have purchased four other 63’s in very fine shape (I’m a sucker and figure I will control the market in excellent 63’s. Still I love the old lever actions. Had a nice 1866 SR but sold it also. Would love to buy a very nice Henry, but I have a wife. Bill N.
If the gun was sent back to Winchester to have a barrel replaced it would have gotten a proof mark (W & P superimposed in a oval) on the top of the receiver as well. Here is an example.
With the absents of that proof mark I can only think the barrel was swapped outside the factory by someone else. If Winchester sent a barrel out to have someone else install it the barrel would have the proof mark and another mark, a P in a circle like this. If there is no P in a circle then the barrel was taken off another gun and put on yours.
As to dating the barrel I would need photos of the barrel address and the caliber stamp to tell. There were several variations to the address and caliber placements.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob,
The “P” proof mark was not used until 1908. Prior to that, the replacement barrels that were sold were marked “OF” on the underside of the barrel. “OF” stood for was “outside fitted”. I have see at least a half-dozen Model 1885 barrels with the “OF” marking, and I would expect that there are a number of Model 1873s out there with it as well.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert – the post from Bob indicates the letter “A” was added to the serial number in 1882, followed by the letter “B” in about 1884. I was just looking at a 73 I have, serial #301286, which letters as follows:
Rifle
44 caliber
1/2 octagon barrel
Plain trigger
Checkered stock
Pistol grip
1/2 magazine
Case hardened
Received in the warehouse on September 18, 1889
Shipped from the warehouse on September 18, 1889
The date is several years after Bob indicates letters “A” or “B” followed the serial number. As always, comments are appreciated.
Burt
Burt,
Your gun should have a B after the serial number.
Bert,
I was under the Assumption that the P proof mark was started close to the same time the W P proof was. I have never seen a OF mark on a 73 underside but I will research that.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bill,
To correct what I said earlier it does look like it could have barrel that Winchester sent out, pictures of the markings would be needed to determine the era the barrel was made.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob – the gun does not have a “B” after the serial number – it is clearly 301286. Also, the museum letter clearly indicates serial number 301286 – there is not a “B”.
I just pulled another one out and looked at it – a standard grade 73 and just a little later – it is serial #564111B – it clearly has the “B”.
Burt
Burt,
The Winchester ledgers at the museum don’t have any letters associated with the serial numbers. Your observation got my curiosity going so I checked all of my guns. All of my straight grip guns all have letters if they fall into the letter range. My pistol grips on the other hand didn’t have a letter except one which was in the A range. I suspect because of lack of space on the tang of a pistol grip there is not enough room to put it on so it was omitted. This would explain the absents of the letter on your gun.
I would like anybody else with 73’s to verify this.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
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