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Bob – I was going to send you a picture but it will be easier if you look at the blue Madis book on page 141 – you will see another 73, same vintage, without a “B” after the serial number- it is # 397123, also a deluxe pistol grip. The same picture is on page 131 of the original “brown” Madis book. The serial # stamp is different on these pistol grip specimens – the book says after about serial number 100k the serial # reads left to right on the lower tang – not muzzle to butt. Burt
January 26, 2011
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Bob,
I think you are on to something. My 1873 sn 252256 circa 1887 – a pistol grip deluxe, does not have the B.
~Gary~
Burt,
I looked at the picture and that is how my pistol grip serial numbers look like except the one with the A, That is in a earlier slanted script style numbers instead of block style all reading left to right. I have a early pistol grip that has the numbers reading front to back.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Hi,
To me, it makes no difference what letter is after the serial number. It is not part of the serial number. I have ’73’s lettered both ways and no difference.
Thanks
Walter
Walter,
So far I haven’t been able to tell if the letters mean anything along with Madis and Gordon. Someday I want to get two guns that are close in serial number one a A one a B and take them apart and compare them. I did find a few more early pistol grips and they all had the A on the tang while searching the web tonight.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I have two with B following the serial number. I don’t have pics of both but here’s one: (Other one is 223170B in 38WCF w/ single set trigger and I believe a non-pistol grip stock but can confirm later)
WACA Member #304
It appears the Madis book got it right on this one. On pistol grips after serial 100,000 the serial # on the lower tang reads left to right, not muzzle to butt and, as Bob stated there was just not enough room to add the “B”. Thanks to those that weighed in on this. Burt
1873man said
Burt,
Your gun should have a B after the serial number.
Bert,
I was under the Assumption that the P proof mark was started close to the same time the W P proof was. I have never seen a OF mark on a 73 underside but I will research that.
Bob
Gentlemen,
My understanding of the alpha serial number suffix is as follows:
Winchester made some minor engineering changes to the internal parts and after these changes were implemented (we all know that Winchester hated to throw anything away), made these changes as a “running change” using the earlier version “A” parts until they were gone and applied the “A” stamp to those guns with those parts. Guns with the newer revised parts would have the B applied to the s/n. This is consistent with Bob’s comments above (although I can’t comment as to the validity of the dates he mentions but they sound reasonable to me): When 73’s came out they had just a plain serial numbers then in 1882 they started adding the A and then it changed to a B. The B started in about 1884 and intermixed with the A’s into 1885 and continued until to the end of production with the B.
It is also my understanding there were more than one assembly area in the plant and this A/B marking procedure helped keep things straight due to the obvious logistical issues associated with multiple assembly departments.
Rob Kassab
Director & Executive Editor
Winchester Arms Collectors Association
To greatly enhance your collecting experience, join WACA. It's only $35 / year (eMembership), and you'll be able to directly upload photos on the forum, receive the e-version of our quarterly magazine and have full online access to our magazine archive database, along with many other member benefits such as 15 additional record searches for Cody Firearms Museum members. It’s easy to join at http://winchestercollector.org/register/.
I have an 1873 with serial # 24855 B
If the serial # did not have a B following the 5 digits, it falls into the manufacturing year of 1878.
Does the B change the date of manufacture?
On the barrel is marked Kings Improvement patented March 29 1866 October 16 1860
The mechanism that delivers the cartridge to the chamber appears to be brass and has 38 cal stamped on the bottom side.
The addition of the “B” suffix would not change the DOM. Remember, the DOM is determined by when the polishing room stamped the s/n into the receiver. The B was probably added at the time of later assembly (admitted speculation here).
Rob Kassab
Director & Executive Editor
Winchester Arms Collectors Association
To greatly enhance your collecting experience, join WACA. It's only $35 / year (eMembership), and you'll be able to directly upload photos on the forum, receive the e-version of our quarterly magazine and have full online access to our magazine archive database, along with many other member benefits such as 15 additional record searches for Cody Firearms Museum members. It’s easy to join at http://winchestercollector.org/register/.
There is something amiss with your serial number, you are missing a digit. 24855 is a first model serial number and does not have a letter. The B’s started around 167,000. Also its a 38 caliber and they didn’t show up until the 40,000’s
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Hello Gentlemen,
My name is Vickie and I am posting for my father who is 86 years old and not as proficient with the use of computers or the internet
He has an 1873 .22 short Winchester Gallery Gun, which has the following: (I say gallery gun because dad had an antique firearms book that had this gun listed as such)
24″ Round Barrel
Butt Plate Metal and Crescent-shaped
Fixed Front Sight
Solid Frame
Full Magazine
Capped Forearm
Stock made of plain Walnut & has a Straight Grip
S/N# 202,004B
It also has 22 CAL SHORT on the brass piece on the bottom of the gun. It also has Model 1873 on the tang behind the hammer, the 7 is dropped in the date and it has some type of design on either side of the date. On the top of the gun, in front of the receiver says 22 CAL, and farther down on top of the barrel it reads: WINCHESTER’S REPEATING-ARMS NEW HAVEN CT. Kings Improvement-Patented MARCH 29, 1866 OCTOBER 16, 1860. I will take pictures and post them at a later time.
I certainly would appreciate any and all feedback about this gun for my dad. He is very interested in finding out as much as possible about it.
Thank you for your time and patience.
Vickie
Vickie,
Your fathers gun was made in 1886 and is a standard rifle with the straight grip. The deluxe version would have a fancy checkered pistol grip stock and maybe a case colored receiver. They were made in 22 Short which is the most common and then 22 long which is less common and the most rare is 22 extra long. The guns were produced with 24″ or 26″ round, octagon or half round barrels. Winchester would make most any gun variation you wanted if you paid them so there are guns with very odd and rare features. You can get a letter from the Cody Firearms museum for the gun that will tell you the configuration it left the factory and the dates it entered and left the warehouse for a charge, it takes about a month to get.
I looked in my survey I’ll doing on the 73’s and I see it was made in a batch of other 22’s.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I know this thread is somewhat dated, but I am a gunsmith and had a customer bring me one of these rifles. It appears it was a blued or varnished gun at one point, but there is no serial number between the lever latch and the lower tang screw. His thought is that it had possibly been filed off but there are really no good indications of filing and it looks like original patina in that area. Were all of these guns serialized?
Yes, they were all serialized (early in the assembly process). The serial number stamps on the early rifles was relatively light, and was more easily obliterated by refinishing prep work (buffing & polishing).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Kevin G said
I know this thread is somewhat dated, but I am a gunsmith and had a customer bring me one of these rifles. It appears it was a blued or varnished gun at one point, but there is no serial number between the lever latch and the lower tang screw. His thought is that it had possibly been filed off but there are really no good indications of filing and it looks like original patina in that area. Were all of these guns serialized?
Kevin,
If you send me some pictures of the markings on the gun and one of where the serial number would of been I can tell what happened. Email is below.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I didn’t take a picture of the area between the trigger guard and the lower tang screw as I wasn’t certain at the time where the serial number “should” have been. I didn’t A&D the gun since I could not readily tell if it had the number removed. However I did take this picture of the side of the receiver where initials and what appears to be a Social Security number had been etched into the metal. I know this was one of the practices of serializing a gun that either had no number or the number was removed and was acceptable legally. Being the number starts with only two digits I assume it had been some time ago and possibly the own was from Massachusetts.
I would have to have him return with the gun to get a tang picture as I was not willing to posses it knowing it may have been filed or without having an ATF letter to raise it or reassign a new number.
Cannot seen to get a picture added here. If you have an email address I can send it
My email is below my picture at the bottom of my post.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
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