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Just a quick update in thanks to Louis for sending me the Stith manual. My parents are in town from Ohio (I’m in Los Angeles) and a buddy of mine and I decided to treat him and my mom to a day at the range and walk them through each decade that we were able to represent between us. Dad, of course, was thrilled to shoot an M1 Garand and M1 Carbine (his father was a WWII vet and Dad is an ex Navy man) and I have to say Mom (off topic) enjoyed her time on the AR-15 (both are sponsors of multiple Honor Flights) more than she thought she would, but we started with M1873 (.32-20), M1886 (.33 WCF), M1894 (.30 WCF), etc… Mosins, Mausers, and Enfields, and civilian rifles including the ’51 M70 (30-06) with Bear Cub and Stith Master Mount discussed earlier.
Armed with a printout of the Master Mount manual Louis graciously sent me and a selection of tools I was prepared to hunker down and dial it in, not knowing how easy or difficult it would be after so many decades.
Also, I’m not usually a 30-06 guy, so I didn’t have a favorite load and just used the surplus ammo I was shooting in my Garand. Just to get a feel for where I was starting, I placed the crosshairs on the plate at 200 yds, paying close attention to the berm behind it to judge how far I had to go. Squeeze the trigger…bang…GONG…
!!!
“That has to be a fluke,” I think to myself. Reload…squeeze…bang…GONG!!!
Ok, how ’bout the plate at 300? Reload…squeeze…bang…GONG!!!
So, after collecting myself, I focus on the paper at 100. Short end of the story…consistent MOA groups right out of the gate.
So me, Mom and Dad, my buddy and his GF took turns in rotation banging gongs from 200 to 500 with amazing reliability. We were all giggling. I gotta say, this ol’ girl has become one of my new favorites. Plus I love the looks on the faces of all the “tier one operators” at the local range with their tacticool modern sporting rifles when they keep seeing a bunch of old farts with a wooden gun popping the gongs at 500 with consistency they only dream of.
Thanks Louis for the manual and all of you for the knowledge shared here.
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
I have Van Orden serial # 333450 issued to the U S Army Rifle team on 19 June 1955. It was one of two owned by M/sgt Gerald Ol’ Hook Boutin. It is in 95-96% condition and in original configuration. I would like to know what this unique weapon is worth. I have been offered quite a bit of money for it by a Physician in Florida who is privy to its history. Hook won it in a match. He told me he set a 500 yard record with it at Oak Ridge that stood for sixteen years. I can’t verify that, but I do have the Offical NRA document that confirms the record but not the rifle used. Can someone help me with the current value?
Thanks,
Steve Edwards
Steve-
That would, of course, be hard to say since they don’t come up very often (recognized as such). The one I bought (from RIA in 2014) was not recognized as a Van Orden Sniper in the auction description and I got it for about $2400 (with buyer premium). I recall seeing on Sniper’s Hide Forum a couple years ago when I was trying to learn something about these rifles that Van Orden’s were going for something like $5000 on the East Coast. A year or so before that one was offered on RIA that had been altered (recoil pad) but was recognized/described as a Van Orden. The reserve was something like $7500 and it did not sell.
A rifle like yours that is unaltered and has provenance would likely appeal both to Military/Sniper Rifle collectors and the odd Winchester collector. So I would not let it go cheap. Maybe Big Larry has a better idea of value in the Military/Sniper market (of course he got his as a gift!!!)
Is yours in the ‘sniper’ stock (looks like an uncheckered standard M70 stock but with different butt stock dimensions) or the ‘special target’ (Winchester Marksman style) stock? I’m fond of the former for the simple reason that they do not look like any other factory original pre-64 M70.
Best, Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Louis,
Thanks for your prompt reply and input! Yes, mine has the “Sniper” stock with the steel butplate. I also have his special order target in 30:06 in Palma configuration. It has the externally adjustable trigger located on the tang behind the bolt. It has two Allen screws that affect trigger weight of pull and control of trigger movement or creep I believe. ( See page 323 of the Rifleman’s Rifle in the first full paragraph on that page.) It was made in 1971 in the custom shop and was not offered to the public according to the book. It is factory bedded ugh 26″ counter bored barrel. I sure would like to know how Hook ended up with it! I guess with all his connections with the National Matches, USAMTU and the shooting community coupled with his love of superbly accurate rifles someone saw to it that he got one!
Anyway, I would greatly appreciate any input on either of these rifles and their worth if possible! Thanks again and God bless our nation!
Steve
???
Neat… The ‘sniper’ stocked ones are the ones I like, mainly b/c if you show it to a M70 collector who does not know what it is, s/he will immediately conclude it has a non-factory replacement stock. 
Is there any way you can post a snapshot? Maybe you have to be a ‘registered guest’ to do that.
Seems to me that Seewin and Big Larry are the two frequent followers of this site who would be able to help you most with the values. Particularly regarding the Palma Match rifle.
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Louis,
I dont think it will allow me to yet. I haven’t received their blessings to post yet. It is like the CMP site. I’m still waiting to be able to post on their site too! Maybe these other guys you are speaking of will see our conversation and jump in before to much longer. I will upload pics when I can.
Regards,
Steve
De Oppresso Liber
nsussf said
Louis,
I dont think it will allow me to yet. I haven’t received their blessings to post yet. It is like the CMP site. I’m still waiting to be able to post on their site too! Maybe these other guys you are speaking of will see our conversation and jump in before to much longer. I will upload pics when I can.
Regards,
Steve
De Oppresso Liber
Steve,
You are being shown as un unregistered Guest. You need to register, create a login ID, and password. Until you do that, you will only be able to read topics and write basic posts. As of this moment, I still have to approve each of your posts. Once you register, your posts will be immediately displayed.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
nsussf said
Louis,Thanks for your prompt reply and input! Yes, mine has the “Sniper” stock with the steel butplate. I also have his special order target in 30:06 in Palma configuration. It has the externally adjustable trigger located on the tang behind the bolt. It has two Allen screws that affect trigger weight of pull and control of trigger movement or creep I believe. ( See page 323 of the Rifleman’s Rifle in the first full paragraph on that page.) It was made in 1971 in the custom shop and was not offered to the public according to the book. It is factory bedded ugh 26″ counter bored barrel. I sure would like to know how Hook ended up with it! I guess with all his connections with the National Matches, USAMTU and the shooting community coupled with his love of superbly accurate rifles someone saw to it that he got one!
Anyway, I would greatly appreciate any input on either of these rifles and their worth if possible! Thanks again and God bless our nation!
Steve
???
Steve, The 1971 Palma rifles are indeed rare birds. There were only about 100 made. They were used in the 1971 Palma International match’s held August of 1971 at Camp Perry. Winchester furnished the rifles to all participants, and they were the only rifles allowed in the Palma competition. The shooters were given the first opportunity to purchase there rifle after the matches. Those that were not purchased were returned to Winchester. All original 1971 Palma’s will have the barrels rollstamped “Palma Match, NRA Centennial 1871 -1971. They will also be factory bedded in a reddish brown “Bisonite” compound under the receiver. Here is a picture of the official rollstamping, along with original rollstamp. By the way, The U.S. beat out Great Britain, Canada and Australia, to win the 1971 competition.
There was also a 1968 and 1976 version of the Model 70 Palma Match rifle. The 1968 is extremely rare, I have only seen 2 of these.
Steve
Hi Louis!
Thanks again for the added info! Coupled with your input and some more in depth research I now know I was mistaken. I was a year early in estimating what this rifle is. It is a G110 prefix serial number which puts it as a 1972 date of birth. It is identical to the 1971 Palma w/o all the markings. It is known as an Ultra Match. I hope I am correct on what I now believe it is. With your help I hope we solved the puzzle. I am pretty much a Remington 700 shooter. So, I am learning as I go. Do you have any idea as to how long it takes to become a member? I have not received a confirmation from the WACA as of yet to go ahead and register.
All the best!
Steve
Bert,
How do I register for the forum? Is it through membership? Or is there something I am missing?
Thanks,
Steve
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