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I have a really nice-condition 1911 Winchester 1892 takedown in .32-20 cal and would like to put a vintage Lyman or Marble tang sight on it. I have a couple of questions:
Which sight, either Marble or Lyman, would be correct for this gun? I have seen comments that a Lyman W. D, B, OR DA and either a Marble W1 or W2 are correct for an 1892, but am not sure if one of those models would be specific for a takedown rifle.
What do the numbers 1A or 2A indicate on some of the D and DA Lyman sights?
Are there sources for original tang sight screws as opposed to newer ones?
I tried to find this info on previous posts but didn’t have any luck. Thanks.
The correct Lyman tang sight is a “D” application code. The “DA” is for the Model 1894. The correct Marbles tang sight is a “W2”. Any other applications codes are not correct for a Model 1892.
The “1A” and “2A” are the later production tang sightss with the locking lever on the left-hand side of the base. The “1” has a flip down peep hole, and the “2” has a screw in aperture disc.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
The correct Lyman tang sight is a “D” application code. The “DA” is for the Model 1894. The correct Marbles tang sight is a “W2”. Any other applications codes are not correct for a Model 1892.
The “1A” and “2A” are the later production tang sightss with the locking lever on the left-hand side of the base. The “1” has a flip down peep hole, and the “2” has a screw in aperture disc.
Bert
Bert, he wants a correct sight for the vintage of his rifle. Be sure to tell him what markings to look for. Big Larry
Can someone provide a ‘primer’ as to the dates when different tang sights (Marbles, Lyman, Vernier, etc.) would be found on what rifles? You can certainly google Lyman or Marbles codes and determine what code goes with which rifle, but what dates are involved, as this is sorely lacking. Other than the obvious (such as a sight with a 1905 patent date obviously not being original to a firearm produced in the 1890’s), what sights were used when, what markings on sights date to when, etc. For me, it is just a ‘guessing’ game. For example, the 1A and 2A sights with the locking lever on the left-hand side of the base are described as later sights. My ‘guess’ was that they might be earlier because of the workmanship involved, and I was wrong! Thank you.
January 26, 2011
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A bit of a late response as I thought Brad or some of the others might jump in on this thread. I would think the Lyman 1A would make the most sense on your 1911 vintage ’92. The 1A and 2A were available and more prominent it seems by this time frame. The 2 and 2A sights I’ve seen are more often installed on the .22 cal. rifles or gallery type guns.
I don’t know much about the Marbles sights as nearly everything I have with tang sights sports a Lyman. It sure looks like Winchester favored them for factory installs.
~Gary~
Just to augment pdog’s post, the Lyman 1A and 2A were introduced in 1899 per Stroebel’s book. As Bert noted, the A indicates the addition of the locking lever on the left-hand side of the upright pivot. For either the 1A or 2A sight, a common marking is the patent date July 25, 1905 on the elevation upright. The base is stamped “Lyman” and “Middlefield, Conn., USA”. However, the markings aren’t always present. The key distinction from previous models is the locking lever.
Since the rifle is from 1911, any of the Lyman No. 1, No. 1-2nd variation, No. 1A-3rd variation, No. 2, or No. 2A-2nd variation are all appropriate sights. The No.1-2nd variation often has patent dates of Jan. 28, ’79 and May 6, ’84 stamped on the elevation upright so May 1884 was the absolute latest it was introduced. The No. 2 was introduced in 1894.
I’m not familiar with Marbles.
Greg
Hi Greg. I think I might be missing something in the Stroebel books as all I can find about the “A” suffix sights is the 1905 patent date. Is the 1899 date you mentioned a typo? Maybe I’m just missing it. I do have an original 1902 Lyman catalog and the locking lever, “A” type sights aren’t in it.
I wrote my best guess about Lyman markings here if anyone is interested:
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-sights/lyman-tang-sight-question-1/
And my best guesses about Marble tang sights/markings here:
I’m trying to learn more about these differences in sights also and maybe will know a little more in a few years…who knows! Maybe someone else has some information.
ketch33: You might find tang screws on ebay or just “weather” some new stock to look older until you find originals.
Brad
Hey Brad – The 1899 date for the 1A/2A sights was per pgs 21 and 22 of Stroebel’s book in the section Lyman Tang Mounted Aperture Sights. Specifically, it states “In 1894, Lyman introduced the No. 2 Combination Tang Sight, which phased out in 1955. Next came the No. 1A and 2A (end pg 21) Tang Sights, introduced in 1899.” What I learned so far in reading Stroebel’s book is that tidbits of info sometimes aren’t in the section that discusses the exact topic on hand.
Greg
Greg
I located that in the Old Gunsights books now and it is written as you have stated. I guess I will repeat that the “A” suffix sights are not in the original Lyman catalog of 1902 that I have. My next catalog is 1906 and they are in that one on page 10 with the note “Patented July 25, 1905”. This is also reflected in the price lists in the back of each catalog; 1A and 2A are not in the 1902 but are in the 1906 catalog. I am generally of the belief that if these sights were available to sell they would be in the advertising and catalog by 1902. I will have to look further.
Thanks,
Brad
Yeah an interesting dynamic to be sure. In this instance, I’d defer to a Lyman catalogue. I do have a 2A DA sight in box with instructions…I looked everything over and didn’t find anything that would prove informative. I also have a reprint of a Winchester Oct 1900 catalogue and I found only a single Lyman tang sight, which was the No.1-2nd variation without the locking lever. Back then, I’m not sure how long it was between an item that was introduced which was patent pending/eligible for a patent and the actual patent date. 10 years seems to be a stretch so I’m leaning towards the A suffix being introduced after 1894. But who really knows?
I think for the original question at hand, any of the Lyman sights I noted in my first post are correct since the rifle was dated at 1911. I’d personally go with a 1A DA because I find those more readily available on the Internet than the other sights. I don’t have the chance to attend any of the big shows so can’t speak to availability of sights there.
Greg
January 26, 2011
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I saw the 1899 reference for the “A” variation Lyman sites too and had to wonder. That seems like a long time to have a product available before the 1905 patent date. I have to agree that first appearance in a catalog, whether its Lyman, Winchester, or any other brand is a good solid indication of when it became available and its doubtful that anything was offered more than a year without being promoted in their next printing of a catalog.
~Gary~
Lyman updated their early 1900s catalogs regularly from what I have seen. I will also add that the Lyman no.29 tang sight with windage adjustable base came and went during the period of 1899-1905 that we are discussing and it appears the Lyman catalogs were updated for that sight’s introduction and discontinuation. I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t have updated for something as significant and as popular as the A suffix locking lever sights.
Brad
I am trying to identify the Lyman sight that I have and I came across this posting. The sight is stamped with DA on the bottom
side of the tang sight. It has windage and elevation adjustments and a lock for the aperture setting. I would post the photos, but
the available options for this don’t seem to be user friendly.
Can anyone give me an idea of what year and rifle this sight was used on?
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
Joel
Joel,
Based on the application code stamped on the bottom side of the base, it is a Lyman tang sight intended for a Model 1894 in 30 WCF, 32 WS, or 25-35 WCF. You can send the pictures of your Lyman tang sight to me at – [email protected]
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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