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"Beech" sights
April 1, 2020
9:28 pm
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Chuck said 
  The brass picture I posted is out of the sight book.  

What book?  If it's not a sight of your own, I'm strongly disinclined to believe it. 

Here's a discussion about identifying ivory:  https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/antiquesfyi/tips/damagedone/index.html

April 1, 2020
11:09 pm
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American Rifle Sights by Tom Rowe

Bob

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April 2, 2020
1:38 pm
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How is putted Ivory :

Is it assembled in force or pinched with steel ?

April 2, 2020
1:49 pm
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Perkins said
How is putted Ivory :

Is it assembled in force or pinched with steel ?  

If your asking how the ivory is held in the sight. It is made into a dowel shape and is pushed into the sight. A Lyman #5 ivory can be pushed out to expose more of it if it gets worn or broken off.

Bob

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April 2, 2020
7:02 pm
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clarence said

What book?  If it's not a sight of your own, I'm strongly disinclined to believe it. 

Here's a discussion about identifying ivory:  https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/antiquesfyi/tips/damagedone/index.html  

Clarence, you saw the picture.  What do you think the brass or bronze looking piece is?  What ever the metal is Lyman did make other sights with this material too.  

April 2, 2020
9:42 pm
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Chuck said

What do you think the brass or bronze looking piece is?

Don't know; just know that over time ivory can turn the same color, & that brass was rarely used by Lyman for front sights during the time #5s were in production--only on a few pistol sights.  You can't look through a pre-war Lyman catalog without noticing how ivory predominated; it wasn't, at this time, a very expensive material.  Maybe it IS brass, but I don't think the color alone is a reliable way to determine that.

April 2, 2020
11:42 pm
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This does not pertain to the questions about brass, ivory or gold bead.  Seems like a lot of guys  are confused about the difference between the Lyman #5 and a Beach sight.  If in doubt, the Lyman #5 has a screw which holds the globe to the base.  The true Beach front sight has a visible pin on each side which holds the globe in place.

April 3, 2020
2:02 am
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win4575 said 
Seems like a lot of guys  are confused about the difference between the Lyman #5 and a Beach sight. 

"A lot of guys," no doubt, esp. ebay sellers, but not many members of this forum...unless I'm badly mistaken.

May 7, 2020
5:38 am
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Fourtyfour Kid
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What rear sight would be used with the layman no.5 say on a model 1890 Winchester.

May 7, 2020
9:34 pm
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A Lyman tang peep sight would be nice.

August 12, 2020
8:01 am
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Chuck said

Bert I did that and it may have helped with text but it did not cure the problems.

I know that I posted the wrong picture but the system would not let me delete the attachment.

jwm94 said

Chuck said
Lyman did make some beads that were a brass color.  Gold looking but not gold. 
 

Were they designated as 5G for Gold, Chuck?  The one my 1890 as pictured is not a shade of ivory that I have ever seen before - it is more of a brass look , which is why I asked for comments about its color.  The rifle it is on was made in 1904.
Thanks for the input!
James  

Lyman-5G.jpgImage Enlarger  

Have you made the test of the hot needle ?

I'm looking informations about Lyman No. 5B Combinaison with Ivory Bead : I can not find photo.

I see a lot of 5 with a fairy rounded ivory shape with not very clear outlines, like your photo.

But the rare photos of the 5B show circular, well-formed inserts with a gold or brass color.

Could ivory inserts have these very clear shapes ?

August 14, 2020
5:48 am
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Bert H. said
Dale,

While the original Beach combination sight and the Lyman No. 5 combination sight are similar, there are distinct physical differences between a true "Beach" combination front sight and the Lyman No. 5 combination front sight. The Beach combination front sight has three separate sighting positions whereas the Lyman No. 5 only has two.

Bert

Gold Washed Beach Combination, and a Lyman No. 5B...

Gold-washed-Beach-50695.jpegImage EnlargerLyman-No.-5B-front-sight-cropped.jpegImage Enlarger

 

When I have a look on the Lyman catalog, we would say that it is a Lyman Front Sight 5 and not 5B

Image Enlarger

The N°5B looks more like the one below

Image Enlarger

And this one seems even closer to the catalog (ivory color)

24hourcampfire picture on link below (upload don't work Frown)

https://www.google.com/search?q=lyman+front+sight+5b&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiCismS-5nrAhUYw4UKHR7zAXEQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=lyman+front+sight+5b&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECAAQEzoGCAAQHhATOggIABAIEB4QE1C0EFi7GGD1G2gAcAB4AIABpQSIAfsFkgEHMC4yLjUtMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=FSE2X8KrHpiGlwSe5oeIBw&bih=626&biw=1366&client=firefox-b-d#imgrc=ecvX7dNBUIYs4M

 

I would like to have your opinion on one last detail : on the Lyman catalog, always on 5B, we see a little white on the other side of thediameter, as if we were inserting an ivory pin in the steel cylinder and that it would protrude on each side. Have you ever seen this in person ?

August 14, 2020
2:42 pm
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Luc,

I do not believe that the Lyman sight you posted a picture of is a "5B" as it has a brass/gold metal bead versus ivory.  We need someone with an old Lyman catalog to look it up.  I know that there was a No. 5, a No. 5A, and a No. 5B.

Bert

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August 14, 2020
3:40 pm
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Bert H. said
Luc,

I do not believe that the Lyman sight you posted a picture of is a "5B" as it has a brass/gold metal bead versus ivory.  We need someone with an old Lyman catalog to look it up.  I know that there was a No. 5, a No. 5A, and a No. 5B.

Bert  

I have many original Lyman catalogs, beginning about 1895; none mention a brass bead option, though that doesn't prove it wasn't available, maybe only for a short time in a catalog I don't have.  I'm inclined to believe that the brass-colored bead some have reported (such as the one in the photo above) is ivory aged to a brassy color, but I could be wrong. If someone has one & is willing to damage it "in the interests of science," scrape or file the bead to see if a white color lies beneath the brassy color.

August 14, 2020
3:51 pm
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Perkins said

 

When I have a look on the Lyman catalog, we would say that it is a Lyman Front Sight 5 and not 5B

The N°5B looks more like the one below

No, the one in Bert's photo seems to be a 5B; the ivory in the original 5 was a post, not a round bead.
 

I would like to have your opinion on one last detail : on the Lyman catalog, always on 5B, we see a little white on the other side of thediameter, as if we were inserting an ivory pin in the steel cylinder and that it would protrude on each side. Have you ever seen this in person ?  

Yes, it's a cylinder that goes all the way through the hood that surrounds it.  How, I've always wondered, were these tiny pieces of ivory shaped cheaply enough to make mass-production economical?  These sights sold for a very moderate price, so the cost of very much hand-fitting would have been prohibitive.

August 14, 2020
5:37 pm
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The ivory bead has a small bead of ivory that when popped up into position is level with the barrel.

The ivory post is the one that sticks straight up and can be pushed further out from the bottom if needed.

Then there are the ones with no bead of ivory or brass/gold that only have a metal post.

The one in Bert's post with the Beech is a #5 not a #5 B.

 

If you look on page 54 of Stroebel's book there is a Lyman description of the various Lyman #5 Combination Front Sights.

No. 5 -  Globe and Ivory Post

No. 5 B - Globe and Ivory Bead  (This sight can be found with the bronze/brass/gold bead too)

No 5 A - Globe and Barleycorn

August 14, 2020
7:06 pm
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Chuck said
.../...

The one in Bert's post with the Beech is a #5 not a #5 B.

It's also what I see

Chuck said

If you look on page 54 of Stroebel's book there is a Lyman description of the various Lyman #5 Combination Front Sights.

No. 5 - Globe and Ivory Post

No. 5 B - Globe and Ivory Bead (This sight can be found with the bronze/brass/gold bead too)

No 5 A - Globe and Barleycorn

 

So you say it's listed in the Stroebel's book  but does not exist in the catalogs?

Maybe front sights repaired because the ivory would have broken? reparired with bronze/brass/gold ?

August 14, 2020
7:44 pm
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Chuck said

The one in Bert's post with the Beech is a #5 not a #5 B.
  

Might be, but can't see it clearly enough to say for sure.  What I thought I saw was a round bead.  Need a better close-up.

August 15, 2020
1:58 am
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Perkins said
 

So you say it's listed in the Stroebel's book  but does not exist in the catalogs?

Maybe front sights repaired because the ivory would have broken? reparired with bronze/brass/gold ?  

What I am saying is that the 5 B can be found with an ivory bead and what ever the gold looking metal bead one is.  I haven't got any Lyman catalogs and I don't think the Winchester catalogs show all of the Lyman sights.

The 5 G picture you show on August 13th is what a bead sight looks like.  The one in your picture is the gold colored one I am talking about.  This is a variation of the 5 B or maybe another Lyman number all together?  The 5 B ivory looks just like this but is ivory.

clarence said

Might be, but can't see it clearly enough to say for sure.  What I thought I saw was a round bead.  Need a better close-up.  

What you are seeing is the tip of the ivory Post.  The post is like a tube that you can see the other end on the back side.  If the tip is damaged you can push the post out to expose more ivory.

August 15, 2020
2:48 am
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Chuck said

This is a variation of the 5 B or maybe another Lyman number all together? 

If it was a variation, it would very likely have its own number/letter to avoid confusion when ordering.

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