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Winchester model 1873 Question
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RickC
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September 22, 2020 - 1:27 am
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Thanks T/R. I don’t think there’s any warning about only using in new Miruku guns and would have to think if the rifle is sound then good to go with the new ammo.

RickC

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RickC
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September 26, 2020 - 1:11 pm
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I just bought the same Remington 44-40 rds that Bob uses in all his 73’s. The only thing I didn’t realize was it says high velocity on the box but it was the only box left on the shelf so I purchased it. Does anyone know the factory claimed FPS on these ? Bob is getting 982 with these on his chronograph.

Below are pics of the Remington & a box of 38-40 marked 1160 FPS considering the lighter bullet.

RickC(AG)

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RickC
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September 28, 2020 - 3:23 pm
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Ok a little confusion & inexperience on my part. I can buy the 44-40 in 225gr Winchester brand cowboy load(750 FPS) but also buy the 200gr jacketed Winchester Brand(1190 FPS). The 225 are a lot cheaper in price and I only want to punch paper. So, do I go with 225gr 750fps but I’ve read the there seems to be no real standard for barrel groove diameter & 225gr is not as accurate. My purpose is a safe load to shoot in my antique 44-40 m1873. Any & all comments welcome.

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September 28, 2020 - 4:47 pm
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Rick,

For me its whatever is the cheapest but I only shoot jacketed ammo so if I have a poor bore it flies straight. Once I use up the ammo I have then I will reload with jacketed to factory specs of the day.

Bob

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RickC
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September 28, 2020 - 4:55 pm
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Thanks Bob. Yes I totally agree on whatever is cheapest. The jacketed 200gr cost more, at least in the Winchester brand than the 225gr cowboy loads. Thinking now for all I will really shoot, maybe the jacketed is the way to go.
Is there a reason you shoot jacketed over lead only ?

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September 28, 2020 - 5:42 pm
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1873man said
Rick,

For me its whatever is the cheapest but I only shoot jacketed ammo so if I have a poor bore it flies straight. Once I use up the ammo I have then I will reload with jacketed to factory specs of the day.

Bob  

Bob – what jacketed bullets do you use for reloading?

 What has been yours and other’s experiencing using jacket .44 magnum bullets for loading in .44-40?  If I recall, .44 mag jacketed bullets run from .429 to .431.  I seem to recall jacketed .44-40 bullets run more like .426/.427.  I also hear of .44-40 bores running up to .436 (maybe it was a Marlin .44-40 that I heard this).  Anyway, it seems in some cases, a jacketed bullet for a .44 magnum might be better than a jacketed bullet marketed for the .44-40.

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September 28, 2020 - 6:17 pm
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RickC(AG) said
Thanks Bob. Yes I totally agree on whatever is cheapest. The jacketed 200gr cost more, at least in the Winchester brand than the 225gr cowboy loads. Thinking now for all I will really shoot, maybe the jacketed is the way to go.
Is there a reason you shoot jacketed over lead only ?

RickC(AG)  

If you have a rough bore the jacketed bullets will not lead up the bore and will be more accurate. If you have a nice bore, lead will work fine. Just think of the bore condition like sandpaper or a file. The rougher it is the more metal will come off the bullet as it goes through. The jacketed bullet will loose far less weight and diameter as it goes out the barrel. If you have a dark bore, jacketed bullets will over time shin it up.

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September 28, 2020 - 6:18 pm
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steve004 said

Bob – what jacketed bullets do you use for reloading?

 What has been yours and other’s experiencing using jacket .44 magnum bullets for loading in .44-40?  If I recall, .44 mag jacketed bullets run from .429 to .431.  I seem to recall jacketed .44-40 bullets run more like .426/.427.  I also hear of .44-40 bores running up to .436 (maybe it was a Marlin .44-40 that I heard this).  Anyway, it seems in some cases, a jacketed bullet for a .44 magnum might be better than a jacketed bullet marketed for the .44-40.  

I’ll have to look when I get home.

Bob

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September 28, 2020 - 6:45 pm
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1873man said

If you have a rough bore the jacketed bullets will not lead up the bore and will be more accurate. If you have a nice bore, lead will work fine. Just think of the bore condition like sandpaper or a file. The rougher it is the more metal will come off the bullet as it goes through. The jacketed bullet will loose far less weight and diameter as it goes out the barrel. If you have a dark bore, jacketed bullets will over time shin it up.

Bob  

Thanks again Bob. Appreciate the replies.

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September 28, 2020 - 9:23 pm
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I have been using Remington 44/40 200gr JSP bullets bought from Midway number 578-01-024. They measure .427 to .428. I would assume it’s the same bullet as is in their loaded ammo. I’ve shot it in every 73 I’ve owned and had good accuracy. The bores have been from rough to mint. T/R

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September 28, 2020 - 9:31 pm
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Fair enough guys. I’m probably over thinking it. Just want a safe load for the gun to handle. These antique rifles must be able to handle smokeless cartridges as well as original black powder rounds that they were designed for. Thanks Bob & T/R

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September 28, 2020 - 10:07 pm
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RickC(AG) said
 These antique rifles must be able to handle smokeless cartridges as well as original black powder rounds that they were designed for.
RickC  

  I hope what you mean by the words “these antique rifles” is pistol calibers in a 1873 model, not a 50-95 in a 1876 model.T/R

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September 28, 2020 - 10:09 pm
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TR said
I have been using Remington 44/40 200gr JSP bullets bought from Midway number 578-01-024. They measure .427 to .428. I would assume it’s the same bullet as is in their loaded ammo. I’ve shot it in every 73 I’ve owned and had good accuracy. The bores have been from rough to mint. T/R  

I have a good supply of those bullets.  I probably purchased them from Midway too.  I mainly bought them for my M1892’s and never even considered using them in my M1873’s (or my Colt Lightning rifles).  But I am definitely considering them now for the ’73’s.  By the way, who here has slugged their .44-40 rifle barrels?  

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September 28, 2020 - 10:55 pm
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 A 1873 and a 1892 barrel made on the same day, would it have the same steel ? If the answer is yes then the barrels would be equal in strength and capable of using 1892 ammo loaded to 1892 spec’s. The 73 action is not the same but has passed the test of time. The 1873 was manufactured and used long after the 1892 was introduced. It would lead one to believe they both came to use the same ammo at some point in time,44-40 W.H.V. excluded. Not a fact just a thought. T/R

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October 1, 2020 - 2:10 pm
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1873man said
I just took my open top off the wall and shot it in the basement over the chronograph with the Remington 44-40’s and got 982 fps

Bob  

Bob do you or anyone know what Remington stated was the factory fps for this Remington marked high velocity 44-40 you use in your 73’s ?

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October 1, 2020 - 4:51 pm
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I used to buy .45-70 in the Remington yellow and green boxes to shoot in old lever rifles.  I seem to recall they were marked, “High Velocity” but also marked they were safe in Trapdoor Springfield rifles.

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October 1, 2020 - 4:53 pm
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steve004 said
I used to buy .45-70 in the Remington yellow and green boxes to shoot in old lever rifles.  I seem to recall they were marked, “High Velocity” but also marked they were safe in Trapdoor Springfield rifles.  

Sort of an oxymoron…Usually loads for the trapdoor are the weakest loads.  Not high velocity by any means.

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October 1, 2020 - 4:55 pm
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Chuck said

Sort of an oxymoron…Usually loads for the trapdoor are the weakest loads.  Not high velocity by any means.  

I recall smiling to myself when I purchased them.

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October 1, 2020 - 5:06 pm
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steve004 said
I used to buy .45-70 in the Remington yellow and green boxes to shoot in old lever rifles.  I seem to recall they were marked, “High Velocity” but also marked they were safe in Trapdoor Springfield rifles.  

Ya it just doesn’t seem correct they put high velocity on the box. Bob wasn’t even getting 1000 fps. I’m not sure what Remington’s intentions were but I’m sure a lot of shooters passed over these shells for their vintage 44-40 rifles when they read high velocity on the box.
I realize WHV was a hot cartridge but not sure what Remington was thinking ?

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October 1, 2020 - 5:23 pm
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It may be a deterrent to reduce their liability?

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