Winchester M1894 32 Special circa 1903|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

I have a Winchester 1894 Rifle dating from the 23rd of May 1918, this rifle being in .30 WCF.  This rifle has factory original swivels that were viewed in a photograph by Bert as being factory original.  The distance from the toe of the butt to the centre of the swivel is approximately 2 11/16″.  This means that, for this particular rifle, the sling swivels were installed at the aforementioned (atypical) location, OR that factory original swivels were installed at a later date at a location that was not identical to most, or all factory-installed swivels installed at the time of manufacture.

My ‘guess’ is that factory sling swivel eyes in the lever guns were ‘eyeballed’ by the individual installing them, as long as the location, visually, appeared reasonable.  From the responses above, this appears to be from the 2 11/16″ to 4″ range.

When you think about it, this makes sense.  If I were manufacturing rifles with sling swivels, I would install them at a reasonable distance from the end of the stock, or at least tell the individual I hired to do this to install them in this manner.  The exception would be, of course, if a jig was manufactured to precisely locate where this swivel eye would be installed, which, it appears, was not the case.  I would think it would make little sense to do so for something in which ultimate precision is not necessary.

If they are drilled, then maybe, yes.  I assumed that they were just screwed in, being threaded with a sharp point.  But, now that I think about it, this would be difficult to do with walnut.  So, I don’t know…unless there was a jig for this which, one would think, would lead to more uniformity in the location of these.

I was going to post photographs of the sling swivel eyes that are factory original, as verified by Bert (again, are they factory original swivel eyes installed at a later date, or at the factory at the time of manufacture???), but I have no idea how to post photographs.  Most other forums have a way to browse to photos on your desktop.  This forum does not.   Any ideas?  Or maybe Bert still has the three photographs I sent him and might post them on my behalf, so that we are at least on the same page as to what constitutes a factory original sling swivel eye, and what does not, independent of the time of installation.

I would think that if there wasnt a jig to place the end of the buttstock into to drill the hole in the same spot every time then there is something else at play.  Regardless, the sling eye/stud would have to be drilled and countersunk to allow the base of the stud to recess below the wood–therefore I would assume it was a one step process with a bit designed for both drilling and countersinking at one time.

The spacing may be model specific.  As Bert pointed out for the 1885, the spacing is about 6″ from the buttstock toe (also shown on the top 1885 in his signature).  And a 3855 pointed out, on his 1886’s they are 3 13/16″ from the toe from what he has observed.  And then there are the 1894’s discussed above.  Spacing variation may exist out of necessity due to the weight of the firearm or the desired spacing between the forward sling eye and the buttstock sling eye. Or, can the spacing be contingent on whether the buttstock has been cored to reduce weight on those firearms that would apply, or possibly the grade of the wood.  Or contingent on the buttplate type.

Without a doubt there are those guns out there where the sling eye has been added using original parts.  I dont doubt if a rifle or carbine are in a letterable range they will mention the sling swivel or eye.  However, for me that isnt a hard rule because there are some guns out there that have a plethora of special order features but not every feature is listed in the ledgers.  With that said, on a regular old gun that was ordered with sling eyes, more than likely it should show up in the ledgers–at least I would want to see it.  On the ones outside a letterable range it would be a judgement call.   Anyone can add a sling stud/eye to a buttstock, the trick I believe would be to remove the stud/eye and look at the drill hole itself on one that letters and use that as a baseline to compare to others in question. 

So, in a nutshell–I dont know, just a best guess at the moment.  Maybe more should be measured to better establish the norm or maybe someone will pass down that nugget of esoteric knowledge to enlighten us all.   

Chris

the other 1886