Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Winchester 92 engraved wiht Mexican motivs
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
March 21, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
March 21, 2022 - 4:38 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

First of all, thanks to all the collaborators of this wonderful foro.
Let me introduce myself, I am a retired Engenier, and live in Cádiz, a small city founded three thousand year ago in Spain. Its the lowest city in Europe, close the Gibraltar strait.
I´m a hunter for small and big games, and now retired, I spend a lot of time shooting and competing with muzzleload guns. Mi prefered gun is the revolver.
In 2016 I bought an original 1873 rifle S/N 175923 in a very good condition, and began my love to the Lever Action Winchester rifles.
Now, I´m the lucky ownwer of at least one original rifle of all the LA models, 1866,1873, 1876, 1866, 1892, 1894 and 1895.
Today I´ll like to show you my last adquisition, a model 92 engraved. In next posts, I´ll show you my other rifles.
I think that the engraved are not made by Winchester, but really are pretty well. The rifle is disabled with two holes in the lower part of the gun.
I´ll appreciate your opinion about it, and if possible more information about the engraved.
Somebody could give me an approximate valoration?

Thank you very much in advance an my best regards for all the menbers.

Grizzly

W92 LeftImage Enlarger

w92 rightImage Enlarger

w92 l1Image Enlarger

w92 l2Image Enlarger

w92 l3Image Enlarger

w92 l4Image Enlarger

w92 l5Image Enlarger

w92 l6Image Enlarger

w92 l7Image Enlarger

w92 l8Image Enlarger

w92 l9Image Enlarger

w92 l10Image Enlarger

w92 l11Image Enlarger

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2323
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
March 23, 2022 - 3:41 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Hola Miguel,

As a guest member on this forum you can not post images.   If you will send them to me at [email protected] I will be happy to put them up for you.

Todo lo mejor,

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
March 21, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
March 23, 2022 - 4:39 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Thank you very much Michael, but I think the photos are posted. Don´t you can see the images correctly?

Once you push on the icon, a square is open, push another time on the icon at the left rigt icon inside the square and the photo will appear.

However, I accept your kind offer and I send the photos to your email.

I´ll be grateful if anybody could give me your opinion about the engraves. I know that it has two differents Escudo Nacional de Mexico, but I don’t know the relationship between them.

Thank alls.

Miguel Angel

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 206
Member Since:
September 11, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
March 23, 2022 - 5:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bienvenidos Miguel

I am happy to welcome another European to the forum. You are in very good hands here. However, it’s even better when you’re registered with a membership ;-).

Greetings from Germany

 

Stefan

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4685
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
March 23, 2022 - 5:02 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Miguel, I can’t open them either.  Send them to Michael for posting.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2323
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
March 23, 2022 - 5:15 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Here are your images.  Definitely not factory original engraving and the barrel and magazine have been shortened.

Michael

1647845942130.jpgImage Enlarger1647845942134.jpgImage Enlarger1647845942139.jpgImage Enlarger1647845972647.jpgImage Enlarger1647845991177.jpgImage Enlarger1647845991184.jpgImage Enlarger1647846011980.jpgImage Enlarger1647846011990.jpgImage Enlarger1647846012002.jpgImage Enlarger1647846030337.jpgImage Enlarger1647846030341.jpgImage Enlarger1647846030348.jpgImage Enlarger1647846030353_1.jpgImage Enlarger1647846030353.jpgImage Enlarger1647846030360.jpgImage Enlarger1647847508809.jpgImage Enlarger1647847508820.jpgImage Enlarger1647847508825.jpgImage Enlarger

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
March 21, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
March 23, 2022 - 6:59 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Michael, thank you for your help.

Really I dont´t think the barrel has been shortened. The barrel has the same length, 21,5 inches , that my other Winchester 92 with octogonal barrel in caliber 38-40 with S/N 884411.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2323
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
March 23, 2022 - 7:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Miguel Angel Sarmiento Mediavilla said
Michael, thank you for your help.

Really I dont´t think the barrel has been shortened. The barrel has the same length, 21,5 inches , that my other Winchester 92 with octogonal barrel in caliber 38-40 with S/N 884411.  

Glad to help Miguel,

If you include the threaded portion in the receiver then the full barrel length is 22 inches which would be difficult to do from an original 24 inch barrel without ending up with an unfilled magazine retaining band dovetail on the underside of the barrel.  Is there any sign of the barrel address stamp on the top of the barrel in front of the rear sight?  It should be identical to this one.

Type-3-RB-Top-Rifle.jpgImage Enlarger

Can you check the distance from the muzzle to the front sight dovetail and the magazine retaining band compared to these images.  Sorry that the rule is not metric!

FS-Dovetail-Comp.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_1043.JPGImage Enlarger

Michael

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
March 21, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
March 23, 2022 - 9:25 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Michael, excuse me for a mistake in my previous post, I have not any rule in inches, and I translated wrong from metric to inches. The full length including the threaded portion is 20 inches. The dimension from the end of the barrel to the dovetail are the same that you show in your photo.

No, it has not any address stamped on the top of the barrel in front of the rear sight, only is stamped in the back, close to the hammer.

Grateful

Miguel Angel

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 526
Member Since:
February 19, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
March 23, 2022 - 9:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

That is one pretty rifle!  

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
March 21, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
March 24, 2022 - 10:45 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Thanks Manuel, maybe you can explain to me what is the relationship of the two engraved National Shields of Mexico.

The shield engraved on the right of the rifle was the official one from 1846 to 1863, and after that from 1867 to 1880, and the one on the right, official from 1934 to 1968.

Is there any relationship between both?

 

Miguel Angel

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 526
Member Since:
February 19, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
March 24, 2022 - 3:51 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Miguel Angel Sarmiento Mediavilla said
Thanks Manuel, maybe you can explain to me what is the relationship of the two engraved National Shields of Mexico.

The shield engraved on the right of the rifle was the official one from 1846 to 1863, and after that from 1867 to 1880, and the one on the right, official from 1934 to 1968.

Is there any relationship between both?

 

Miguel Angel  

I can’t help you on your question other then the customer wanted those Shields for one reason or another.   Maybe the previous owner had relationships with those governments.  Either way its definitely one of a kind!

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4345
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
March 24, 2022 - 5:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Miguel –

I didn’t see that you posted the serial umber of the engraved M1892.  I am just curious if it is within the Museum, “letterable” range.

When you ask about valuation, are asking what it would be worth in the U.S.?

And you mentioned the rifle has been, “disabled” by two holes – where are they exactly?

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6528
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
March 24, 2022 - 6:15 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Miguel Angel Sarmiento Mediavilla said

Is there any relationship between both?

 

Miguel Angel  

Merely different artistic interpretations of the same basic symbol, just as the American eagle can be depicted with wings folded, outstretched, & in other postures.  More unusual than the Aztec eagle, which is used for all sorts of decorative purposes in Mexico, is the jaguar image, which was a symbol principally important in Mayan art.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2323
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
March 24, 2022 - 6:52 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Miguel Angel Sarmiento Mediavilla said
Michael, thank you for your help.

Really I dont´t think the barrel has been shortened. The barrel has the same length, 21,5 inches , that my other Winchester 92 with octogonal barrel in caliber 38-40 with S/N 884411.  

No apology necessary Miguel,

In looking again at your photos and your information that the barrel is 20 inches long I feel that it is in fact most likely the original barrel for the rifle.  The caliber stamp appears on the left side of the barrel.  At the time the rifle was manufactured the common position was on top of the barrel.  The stamp is on the left side because the rear sight dovetail was positioned closer to the receiver face by Winchester to lengthen the sight aperture on 20 inch barreled rifles and the sight would have covered the caliber marking if it were located on top.  We will have to assume that 330385 is the correct serial number and was engraved on the barrel to not interfere with the engraving on the bottom of the receiver.

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
March 21, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
March 24, 2022 - 8:43 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Steve, yes, I´d like to know the valuation in U.S., unfortunately, this kind of rifle has not market in Spain.

The rifle is disabled with two holes in the lower part of the barrel, close to the action. I´ll send you a photo, and please, could be so kind to upload it in a post?

The deactivation is certified for the official authority in Spain (The Official Gun Bank of Proof, BOPE), and so, it is not considered a weapon in Spain, it´s considered as a ¨broom¨.

Are the rules the same in U.S.? A disabled gun in U.S. is considered a weapon or the sell is free?

 

Miguel Angel

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2323
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
March 24, 2022 - 9:26 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Miguel,

Here is the image of the underside of the barrel.  That looks like a “disaster waiting to happen” as we say!  Once a projectile is fired and clear the first hole as it travels down the barrel all of the pressure is going to blast out of the hole in the underside of the barrel and could cause severe damage to the wood fore end and the hand holding it!!!!

20220324_214801.jpegImage Enlarger

Michael

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
March 21, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
March 24, 2022 - 9:51 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Oh, yes, in Spain is considered a ¨gun unusable for firing¨. Don´t use you in U.S. this kind of method? It is consider this gun as a weapon in U.S. or has other type of consideration?

Miguel Angel

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1732
Member Since:
June 4, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
March 24, 2022 - 11:18 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Miguel Angel Sarmiento Mediavilla said
Steve, yes, I´d like to know the valuation in U.S., unfortunately, this kind of rifle has not market in Spain.

 

Miguel Angel  

 Miguel,

 Unless your gun has some documented history or was owned by someone famous it’s value will be based on what it is.

  As a Winchester collector I see a gun with a re-applied serial number, deactivated in a repulsive manner, engraved non factory, and other non factory work. The value of the gun is display only, wall hanger. If you can come up with the original serial number and it is in a serial number range that can be lettered by the Cody Museum, that could affect the value. I would encourage you to pursue it’s history.

 It’s a eye catching piece, keep it and enjoy looking at it. T/R

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4345
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
March 24, 2022 - 11:45 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The deactivation aspect would have a dramatic negative impact on the value here.  I believe however, that given this rifle was made post 1898, despite the holes in the barrel, it would still be considered a modern rifle and subject to all of the laws that govern modern rifles here in the U.S.  It appears the rifle could be restored to be a functioning rifle by replacing the barrel.  You would of course lose the engraving on the barrel if that were done.  I agree that it is basically a wall hanger.  

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Online: jolly bill, rogertherelic, DEEREHART, MNwin, phoneman91
Guest(s) 102
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6528
TXGunNut: 5198
Chuck: 4685
steve004: 4345
1873man: 4331
Big Larry: 2359
twobit: 2323
mrcvs: 1773
TR: 1732
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12932
Posts: 112812

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1793
Members: 8944
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation