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Winchester 1907 .351
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March 28, 2023 - 2:09 pm
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Hi Guys,

I recently won a Winchester 1907 on an auction I haven’t picked it up yet though. I have had an interest in these semi-auto Winchesters ever since I read about some of the Depression Era gangsters sometimes using them, Baby Face Nelson being one of them. The ones that I have seen never seem to have much collector value. I have only seen one being fired and that was back in the 1980’s once I get it in hand and have a chance to look it over I will post some pictures of it. Like all firearms I buy I like to try to shoot them but this one I am not sure about. First off is the brass seems to be pretty much extinct although it could be made from what I have seen although not easily. The other thing is that it is a semi-auto and I have little experience with reloading for them.

So I figured I would post to the forum and ask if there are any out there with experience with these rifles who would care to share their insights using one of these.

Thanks,

Rob

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March 28, 2023 - 2:16 pm
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Hi Guys,

Here is a picture of the rifle I bought.

 

58635_0.jpgImage Enlarger

 

Thanks,

Rob

PS: I was just on Buffalo Arms site and saw they have Bertram brass available for this caliber at $45.00/20pcs anyone ever use Bertram brass?

R

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March 28, 2023 - 4:44 pm
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 Decent looking rifle.Many times the Model 07 have cracks in the forend wood.I do not notice any on the rifle in the picture.Should be a good shooter.

 The 07 is a fun rifle to shoot.I have one which I load for.I have .351 Jamison brass.Have used Bertram brass in my .405 with no problems,but I have read that others where not happy with theirs.

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March 28, 2023 - 5:33 pm
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I’ve owned a few .351’s over the years.  Only shot factory ammo – but never shot a lot.  It’s a pain to get set up – you have to make up (or have made) brass, the .351 bullets are an odd size and then when you shoot it, the empty brass in nearly impossible to find in the grass.  A tip – don’t even look for it right away – go back at night with a flashlight and you’ll be able to pick it out.  Oh, and dies are specialty and not cheap.

I see “Bullet Man Dan” sells loaded ammunition for it.  I think I’ve purchased cast bullets from him in the past and was pleased.  Anyway, at $1.38 per round, it sounds like a deal to me.  How many rounds do you estimate you want to shoot?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/978360905

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March 28, 2023 - 5:43 pm
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I use a lot of Bertram brass when that is all I can find.  Jamison brass I feel would be an upgrade.  I have bought cast bullets from Dan.  Note that what he is selling is not proper head stamped brass.  I would rather use the Bertram.

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March 28, 2023 - 6:01 pm
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Chuck said
I use a lot of Bertram brass when that is all I can find.  Jamison brass I feel would be an upgrade.  I have bought cast bullets from Dan.  Note that what he is selling is not proper head stamped brass.  I would rather use the Bertram.

  

Yes, Dan is using .223 brass – surely a reason he is able to offer the ammunition at a reasonable price.  .351 ammunition was made by the factories in much more recent times than most of the obsolete black powder lever rifles we shoot around here.  And for years, a person could find .351 ammo fairly reasonable.  Now, it’s usually priced way out of sight.

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March 28, 2023 - 7:04 pm
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 The bullets I use for reloading, are Graft and can usually be bought at a reasonable price.If I am worried about the ejected empties, I use a shell catcher on the side of the rifle.

 

 I have a friend who makes the brass for his Model 07 from another cartridge.However, I prefer the correct head stamp,so I bought the correct marked cases.Smile

 

 Yes .351 factory ammunition can be found,but like everything else, it has gone up in price here of late.

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March 28, 2023 - 7:57 pm
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Great replies great info I will have to check on Dan. I generally like to have 50-100 cases for any particular rifle although most are single shot or levers. I remember watching the 07 I saw back in the 80’s kick that brass like no tomorrow. In fact my brother was shooting his AR and that brass didn’t go nearly as far as the 07’s. 

I figure if I had the brass I might have a mold that works or possibly have one made or buy bullets too if I can find one as well as trying to find he dies. I will check Grafs on bullets I would rather buy them if I can find the right ones. I have a machine shop so I figure I could modify a sizer die once I know the bore diameter reaming it out.

Very much appreciate all the info!

Rob

 

PS: I checked Ammo Dan and Graf’s Dan has a components – bullets and reformed cases and Grafs has dies nothing is cheap! But it seems it might be easier to get this old girl running that what I originally thought

R

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March 28, 2023 - 10:19 pm
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Robert, I looked up what brass could be used to make 351 SL.  It appears that 357 Maximum is currently being made by Starline and Remington.  Does take some work.  Rim has to be turned and the extractor groove has to be cut.  Rest is pretty easy if you have the full length sizing die.

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March 28, 2023 - 11:31 pm
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In, “Home Guide to Cartridge Conversions” George Nonte recommended a modified .357 magnum case for the .351.  He wrote this book before the .357 Maximum cartridge came out.  He states the .357 case will be about 0.90″ short – so I could see where the .357 maximum case would be a good candidate.  I’m not sure how much better it is than the the .223 case.  I would think there would not be the need to cut the rim off or make an extractor groove – although perhaps the extractor groove would need to be deepened.

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March 31, 2023 - 8:01 pm
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Hi Guys,

I ordered some Redding dies for the .351wsl, lee crimp die, and a shell holder. I have powder and some Winchester small rifle primers now I have to get some cases and the right bullets. I am picking the rifle up on Tuesday and I will take some pictures of it and post them. I thought I should start by getting loaded cartridges to but I haven’t really seen a lot offered. Ammo Dan has some components available but I am still not sure I want to use reformed brass or correctly stamped brass. I can get some correct Bertram from Buffalo Arms but finding the bullets hasn’t been that easy. Buffalo doesn’t have any nor do my usual haunts. Accurate Molds can build one for just under $200. So far its been a pretty expensive venture into getting everything together for this Winchester 1907. I guess I can’t just don a suit, pull down on my fedora and fire away at least not yet

Rob

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March 31, 2023 - 8:33 pm
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Try this.

(406) 276-3394
[email protected]

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March 31, 2023 - 10:11 pm
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Hi Chuck,

I sent him an email thanks for the heads up

Rob

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March 31, 2023 - 11:19 pm
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I already got emails from the Bull Shop they have reformed case and bullets I am going to put an order together and send it off.

Thanks Chuck,

Rob

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April 1, 2023 - 2:32 am
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Even if you use the Bertram brass you can get their bullets.

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April 1, 2023 - 4:17 pm
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Robert Drummond Jr said
Hi Guys,

I ordered some Redding dies for the .351wsl, lee crimp die, and a shell holder. I have powder and some Winchester small rifle primers now I have to get some cases and the right bullets. I am picking the rifle up on Tuesday and I will take some pictures of it and post them. I thought I should start by getting loaded cartridges to but I haven’t really seen a lot offered. Ammo Dan has some components available but I am still not sure I want to use reformed brass or correctly stamped brass. I can get some correct Bertram from Buffalo Arms but finding the bullets hasn’t been that easy. Buffalo doesn’t have any nor do my usual haunts. Accurate Molds can build one for just under $200. So far its been a pretty expensive venture into getting everything together for this Winchester 1907. I guess I can’t just don a suit, pull down on my fedora and fire away at least not yet

Rob

  

You are certainly serious about this Cool

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April 6, 2023 - 3:13 pm
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Hi Guys,

So an update on the 1907. I picked up the rifle and was able to examine it and overall it is in pretty good shape although on the left side there is a lengthwise split in the forearm. something I could fix pretty fairly easily I think. The finish is good no pitting or spot rust only a little worn in some places from use. The magazine is in good shape and shows finish loss from use over the years the spring seems strong. The bore looks to be fine and clean. I ran a patch down to see how dirty it was and although some crud came out on the patch it didn’t take much to get it cleaned. I promise I will post some pictures when I get a chance to take some.

I also got my dies for .351wsl  and a Lee crimp die along with a shell holder. I ordered bullets and reformed cases from the Bull Shop. I was figuring on using some of the data I was able to find on loads for .351wsl using Unique or IMR3031 I have both. The fellow at the Bull Shop gave me some data he used with his bullet using another powder but I see no references for that. Mike Venturino wrote an article on shooting one of these but posted no loads. Any recommendations on where I could look for loads on this caliber?

Thanks,

Rob

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April 6, 2023 - 3:29 pm
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 I use IMR 4227 with a 180 grain bullet.Do you have any loads for the 180 grain bullet and IMR 3031?Cannot say I have ever seen any for the 180 grain bullet, IMR 3031 and the .351 WSL rifle.

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April 6, 2023 - 3:49 pm
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Hi 28 gauge,

Yes, 180 grain bullet, and re-checking, you are right the load was using 4227 not 3031. What the Bull Shop recommended for his bullet and case was 18.5 of LT-30 using small rifle mag primers. I have some LT-30 but only CCI small rifle primers (at $102/1000 the price for them plus HazMat they are not cheap) I was planning on using them. He told me that he tried all the published loads for 180 grain bullet for .351wsl and they were inaccurate. The load he recommends he found to be the most accurate. I don’t know any other details on that load or if it was a starting load so I was dubious about trying it.

I am not sure how much I will shoot this rifle initially my plan was to function test it then put some time into it if I found it was fun. 

Rob

  

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April 6, 2023 - 5:12 pm
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Robert Drummond Jr said
Hi 28 gauge,

Yes, 180 grain bullet, and re-checking, you are right the load was using 4227 not 3031. What the Bull Shop recommended for his bullet and case was 18.5 of LT-30 using small rifle mag primers. I have some LT-30 but only CCI small rifle primers (at $102/1000 the price for them plus HazMat they are not cheap) I was planning on using them. He told me that he tried all the published loads for 180 grain bullet for .351wsl and they were inaccurate. The load he recommends he found to be the most accurate. I don’t know any other details on that load or if it was a starting load so I was dubious about trying it.

I am not sure how much I will shoot this rifle initially my plan was to function test it then put some time into it if I found it was fun. 

Rob

  

  

If this was his most accurate load, chances are it is not a starting load.  

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