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Hello,
They do not get a lot of press here on the forum but I have at least 8 of them in different caliber and barrel configurations. They are very accurate and fun to shoot.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
I fell for the winchester pump 22s at the local fall fair shooting gallery as a kid in the 50s.
I have 4 1890 octagon and 2 round 90s , 3 1906s including Expert, 1 62 gallery short only and 2 62As and 6 61s including WMR , oct short only , oct LR only , 1 grooved top S,L,LR and 2 solid tops (one with tang sight ). Still looking for WRF and smoothbore .
Not a 61 collector yet.Im looking at a model 61 Saturday morning.The owner says its a 1955.It does have a crack in the stock but I feel its priced right.Should be a basic good shooter.Hope to own it.
Have several 61’s: a 2 digit SN gun, a 3 digit gun, a 4 digit gun and an assortment of 5 and 6 digit guns. Have two in the box. Have all 3 of the octagon bbl versions. I have a smoothbore, the early Routledge model. And some standard guns. I don’t have a magnum tho.
Also some 1890’s, 1906’s, 62’s and a bunch of bolt action Winchester .22’s.
Nice stuff.
Jolly
Hello papa: The bible on slide actions including the Model 61 is Ned Schwing’s Slide Action Winchesters, Vol’s 1 and 2. The book has been reprinted in one soft cover book which is out of print at the present time but can be found at shows and used book stores (internet).
One other book that is solely dedicated to the Model 61 was written by C.Key (Charles) with the latest ed. in 2011. The title (uniquely) is: The Winchester Model 61. This book lists another way of counting variations of the 61 as well as some interesting variants.
The Schwing book is a must have by one interested in Winchester slide actions. There are some flaws in the book that hinge on his opinions, such as counting the late model 90s vs the 06’s, but the book is the bible.
By the way I have "more than one" model 61s.
Merrill
Hi,
I’ve had about a half dozen of the model 61’s over the years, but right now I’m down to three, I think; a magnum and two pre-wars, one with the short forearm and the other with the long. Most of my slide actions are the 1890 and the 62A.
James
Is anyone aware of a list or database of the serial numbers for the alleged 77 true Rutledge model 61’s?
Also, how about a database of all of the "smoothbore" variations with serial numbers?
I collect the model 61’s and my goal was to collect all 24 variations according to the C.H. Key book. I have achieved that. Including the 61 carbine. Now I would like to see how many of the Routledge model 61’s are accounted for.
Feedback would be appreciated.
Hello renegade: I have been keeping a record of the so called 61 Carbine as defined by C. Key. Four so far. Yours may be the fifth. I am having trouble w/ Internet connection now but would like to compare notes.
Merrill
Could someone please tell me the inside diameter of the smooth part on the Rutlege?
Thanks, Gobbler
Routledge Counterbore = .375" bored 13.5" from muzzle end
Winchester Counterbore = .265" bored 8" from muzzle end
Winchester Non-Counterbore Smoothbore = .217" entire length
Merrill,
We have chatted in the past!. I think you have my Serial # for my carbine. We have exchanged numerous emails. Let me know.
Dart
Yes Dart. Hello. Did not know your cyber name. Since we last "talked" I obtained a Routledge Bore 61. This in addition to a number of other "for shot only" in the SHOT section of my collection of 61s. You mention attaining all 20 of the variations as listed by C. H. Key. In both his blue and brown books he mentions 24 variations. I am not a big fan of his variation listing nor have I have compared my collection against his list though I think I would fall short. This isn’t all that bad as "the looking" is almost as fun as "having".
If I were to make a variation list it would not include the carbine or the Routledge bore as neither were produced by the Winchester factory. At least this is the null hypothesis and nobody has proved it wrong. An argument can be made – perhaps – to place an asterick by the Routledge Bore as it is hypothezied that Winchester had an "agreement" with Fred to produce a certain number – 75, or 77, or ?. Winchester probably sent through-bore or non counter bore LR SHOT with standard magazine loading ports (the Routledge has a non-factory altered port, or a truncated cone and not a triangular port), to Freds Michigan factory. Schwing says the agreement soured and Winchester then started producing the Winchester counter-bore. Thus the Winchester Routledge story ends (I do have two Remington Routledge bore rifles Note: great for carpenter bees).
Some of the smooth bores are so rare that most collectors spend time on other variations.
Good to hear from you again.
Merrill
Schwing seems to think the non-counter bore smoothbore might be the rarest…………… never hear anyone talk about them or how many there might be. Mine is #259311
Pages 35, 48-49 of Volume II of his book.
Also, talked to CH Key today. He had taken in another carbine from an estate in California recently and had just sold it for $3500!!!
Renegade said
Routledge Counterbore = .375" bored 13.5" from muzzle end
Winchester Counterbore = .265" bored 8" from muzzle end
Winchester Non-Counterbore Smoothbore = .217" entire length
Thanks, Man.
Gobbler
Hello Dart
I will send you the SN of my 99% Through Bore after work today. I will talk to c. Key and get the SN of the carbine for my records.
Merrill
Hello Dart:
My non-counter bore grooved-top has serial number 284,634. Perhaps a year or so newer than yours. It is in virtually 100% condition.
Since I purchased it I have seen and passed up two others. I was surprised that I had seen these when I thought they were so scarce. The non-counterbored smoothbore was not – to the best of my knowledge – a cataloged item for Winchester and, if true, questionable as a valid smoothbore variation.
Also in my collection is a .22 WMR smoothbore with MOD screw-on choke, a companion to the one shown in Schwing’s book. There are 3 or 4 of these floating around. This was not a cataloged item as they did not proceed beyond the prototype stage.
Merrill
I had an uncle who lived in Rose City, Texas, which was a tiny community back in the late 1940s and early 1950s. He and his wife ran a small local grocery store there on the Old U.S. Hwy. 90, and they carried some hunting, fishing, and trapping products. They had a small rack of new Winchesters on the wall behind the counter, and the catalogs that was for use in ordering from the company was available. This store is probably where my father bought the Model 42 that he gave to me in 1954. I visited my relatives there on occasion, and sometimes I’d spend some time with them and visit with my older cousin. We’d shoot his brand new Winchester Model 61 non-counterbore smoothbore using bird/rat shot, and we’d also accompany his father when he ran his trap line. There were lots of mink and other fur bearing animals in the area at that time. This was before I received my model 42, so the year was probably about 1953.
James
merrbarb said
Hello Dart:My non-counter bore grooved-top has serial number 284,634. Perhaps a year or so newer than yours. It is in virtually 100% condition.
Since I purchased it I have seen and passed up two others. I was surprised that I had seen these when I thought they were so scarce. The non-counterbored smoothbore was not – to the best of my knowledge – a cataloged item for Winchester and, if true, questionable as a valid smoothbore variation.
Also in my collection is a .22 WMR smoothbore with MOD screw-on choke, a companion to the one shown in Schwing’s book. There are 3 or 4 of these floating around. This was not a cataloged item as they did not proceed beyond the prototype stage.
Merrill
Maybe when Schwing wrote his book it tweeked enough interest to bring existing models out of the woodwork!
What is the serial number of your Routledge 61? I have identified 12 of them by serial number so far.
Renegade: My Routledge Bore has serial number 45138, and does not have the "w" on the bottom of the receiver. Some RBs did, and some not. I have two friends with Routledge Bore rifles, and an acquaintance nearby that owns two!
Ned Schwing’s volumes was the catalyst for Model 61 collectors.
Merrill
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