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Thoughts on declining values...
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March 6, 2021 - 5:24 pm
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tionesta1 said

I’ve been noticing lately that Remington 700’s, and 760’s, as well as newer production Marlin’s are selling for what I think are outrageous prices, especially JM marked. Anyone else noticing this?  

Savage 1899’s and 99’s also.

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March 6, 2021 - 7:00 pm
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  AZshot, I think the market for Winchester and Colt is strong. I went to Sioux Falls 3 weeks ago and 5000 people when thru the gate on Saturday alone. Collectors like Winchesters and the value depends on what you have. Do not buy mistakes, know the market, and the guns. Cash goes a long way at a gun show if you know what your looking at. T/R 

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March 6, 2021 - 7:17 pm
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Thanks for the replies and perspective yall.  Bear in mind I’ve been watching prices and buying guns a long time, as many of you have.  I’m not going to go search out a highly watched auction and then debate the price a 1894 went for.  

Also realize the sun doesn’t rise and set on Gunbroker auctions.  Those are the highest attainable prices, followed by large national auctions.  You are competing against several hundred, bored, rich retirees.  Like paying above MSRP at a car dealership, some do that because they are in a hurry, don’t like to work for harder prices, etc.

A little cheaper can be retail gun shops that do NOT also list online

Next rung down is gun shows. 

Next rung down is face to face networking finds.

I pay very low prices for what I buy. I know what I’m looking at better than the seller most of the time.  I don’t think I’ve bought a gun on GunScamer since about 2002.  But I buy guns, lots of guns, and watch prices.  Most antiques are going down.  Other than GunPoker, as explained above.  I have collected Colts for 25 years, and know some models are up, some are down.  Black powder cap and ball, Police Positives, Army Specials, Official Police are all at less than or equal to were they were….20 years ago. 

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March 6, 2021 - 7:22 pm
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tionesta1 said
I’ve been noticing lately that Remington 700’s, and 760’s, as well as newer production Marlin’s are selling for what I think are outrageous prices, especially JM marked. Anyone else noticing this?  

Yes, I have noticed this as well.  I can’t say I understand exactly what’s going on, but interest in most discontinued firearms seems to be escalating.

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March 6, 2021 - 8:10 pm
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AZshot said

Also realize the sun doesn’t rise and set on Gunbroker auctions.  Those are the highest attainable prices, followed by large national auctions.  You are competing against several hundred, bored, rich retirees.

So true.  Most pernicious effect of such high GB prices is their influence on the many who use them as price guides for whatever they’ve got to sell–they warp the market, in other words.

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March 6, 2021 - 10:02 pm
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 AZshot, I guess we are different types of collectors. I collect antique Winchesters and Colts with history. I buy a small number of guns but at a high price, always more than anyone else is willing to pay, whether it is a auction, gun dealer, or internet. I like rare whether it is condition, feature, or history. The value in the buy for me is knowing something the seller and the other buyers don’t. But sometimes the seller knows something I don’t and the purchase is a mistake. We all including myself make mistakes and they are expensive. I don’t call my guns investments, I call them my hobby. You never graduate from the school of hard knocks. T/R

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March 6, 2021 - 10:54 pm
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AZshot said
Also realize the sun doesn’t rise and set on Gunbroker auctions.  Those are the highest attainable prices, followed by large national auctions.  You are competing against several hundred, bored, rich retirees.  Like paying above MSRP at a car dealership, some do that because they are in a hurry, don’t like to work for harder prices, etc.

Isn’t that the truth!  GunBroker thrives on folks not willing to do their research and/or folks with more money than patience or sense.

Friends don’t let friends buy on Gunbroker!

I avoid Gunbroker…

As others already stated, the problem is when individuals apply Gunbroker prices to real world situations.

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March 7, 2021 - 12:51 am
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Gunbroker is a key player in the escalation of prices – for all sort of items.  Ammunition, primers, powder and other reloading components are examples.  I’ve read several examples on other forums of guys who know of gunshops who, when a batch of primers, et al comes in, they don’t put it on the shelves but rather they immediately list it on gunbroker.

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March 7, 2021 - 1:44 am
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steve004 said
 I’ve read several examples on other forums of guys who know of gunshops who, when a batch of primers, et al comes in, they don’t put it on the shelves but rather they immediately list it on gunbroker.  

That is called “capitalism”, and I personally cannot find fault with any retail store that can legitimately sell any product at a higher profit by listing it on the internet.

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March 7, 2021 - 2:37 am
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Bert H. said

That is called “capitalism”, and I personally cannot find fault with any retail store that can legitimately sell any product at a higher profit by listing it on the internet.  

No, the correct name for this racket is PROFITEERING: 

“Profiteering refers to taking advantage of unusual or exceptional circumstances to make excessive profits. It is the generation of disproportionate or unfair profit through manipulation of prices, abuse of dominant position, or by exploiting a bad or unusual situation such as temporary scarcity. Usually, there is no governmental control over profiteering unless it involves any illegal means. Sale of scarce goods at inflated price during war is an example for profiteering.”
 
 
 

.

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March 7, 2021 - 2:37 am
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Bert H. said

That is called “capitalism”, and I personally cannot find fault with any retail store that can legitimately sell any product at a higher profit by listing it on the internet.  

I don’t disagree Bert.  I’m just making the point that gunbroker has made this kind of stuff very possible.  Far cry from the old days where The Shotgun News was the main vehicle for nationwide sales.  Anyone remember the, “early delivery option”.  I seem to recall it was a few hundred over and above the regular subscription.

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March 7, 2021 - 2:41 am
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steve004 said

I don’t disagree Bert. 

You don’t disagree that between capitalism & profiteering there’s no moral distinction? 

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March 7, 2021 - 2:49 am
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Bert H. said

That is called “capitalism”, and I personally cannot find fault with any retail store that can legitimately sell any product at a higher profit by listing it on the internet.  

True, but it would be nice if those local retail stores would serve their local customers, the ones who in hard times they ask for “loyalty” from. “Buy local” was the mantra when local stores were threatened by cheaper prices on the internet. Now that the situation has reversed, loyalty on the part of the local retail stores seems to have been lost. Things will change again, the local customers will remember.

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March 7, 2021 - 3:25 am
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clarence said

steve004 said

I don’t disagree Bert. 

You don’t disagree that between capitalism & profiteering there’s no moral distinction?   

It’s difficult for me to view the gunbroker sellers as profiteering when they don’t set the price.  When you set an auction at penny you are letting the bidders decide what they want to pay.  The various forces that go into bidders bidding very high is on the bidders.  Whether it is ego, competitiveness with other bidders, lack of interest in educating themselves, etc., that’s beyond the wheelhouse of the seller.  

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March 7, 2021 - 3:46 am
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steve004 said

It’s difficult for me to view the gunbroker sellers as profiteering when they don’t set the price.

They wouldn’t be listing this stuff on GB if their intention was NOT profiteering!  They’d be selling it in their shops to their regular customers at MSRP!   Do you really feel obligated to make “excuses” for such low-lifes?

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March 7, 2021 - 3:56 am
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steve004 said

It’s difficult for me to view the gunbroker sellers as profiteering when they don’t set the price.  When you set an auction at penny you are letting the bidders decide what they want to pay.  The various forces that go into bidders bidding very high is on the bidders.  Whether it is ego, competitiveness with other bidders, lack of interest in educating themselves, etc., that’s beyond the wheelhouse of the seller.    

Steve,

I view it exactly as you do.  It is the “market” that is setting the price, not the seller.  That is a distinction that Clarence is apparently either unwilling to recognize, or admit to.

Bert

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March 7, 2021 - 4:00 am
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clarence said

steve004 said

It’s difficult for me to view the gunbroker sellers as profiteering when they don’t set the price.

They wouldn’t be listing this stuff on GB if their intention was NOT profiteering!  They’d be selling it in their shops at MSRP!   

Clarence,

What they are doing is referred to as free market selling… it is not legally definable as “profiteering”. Allowing the market place to set the eventual price is a long standing business model… whether you personally agree with it (or not) is different topic.

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March 7, 2021 - 2:48 pm
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I suspect many of the gunshop owners recognize the value of taking care of their loyal customers and keep back a portion of their supply for them.  I am sympathetic for the shop owners when many of the, “customers” entering their store have pure resale in mind and are buying anything they can get their hands on (bringing extended family members along when there are limitations on how much each customer can purchase).  These, “customers” often have no interest in firearms and no personal interest in what they are purchasing.  They are making an enormous profit compared to what the shop owner is making.  I know if I were a shop owner (and I’m glad I’m not), I would be very annoyed with these, “customers.”  Hence, I don’t view the shop owners as low-lifes for maneuvering these guys out of the picture. 

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March 7, 2021 - 4:02 pm
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 You can not fault a retail gun shop for selling something at current price. The only way the local shop can supply a product of limited quainty for it’s local customer is sell it for a price that does not allow a resale. At least it’s on the shelf for sale. The gun dealer can always cut a deal for good local customers. T/R

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March 7, 2021 - 4:05 pm
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Bert H. said

Clarence,

What they are doing is referred to as free market selling… it is not legally definable as “profiteering”. Allowing the market place to set the eventual price is a long standing business model… whether you personally agree with it (or not) is different topic.  

“Free market selling” would apply only to an auction with bidding starting at a fair price or some nominal sum.  But the internet sites are FULL of stuff unquestionably priced at the profiteering level–that is, far above MSRP.  Like this that Steve posted:

https://exammo-com.3dcartstores.com/Hornady-American-Whitetail-30-30-150-grain-InterLock-Jacketed-Soft-Points-Box-of-20-Rounds_p_537.html

And there are thousands more just like it.  If this isn’t profiteering, there’s no such thing. 

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