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Of Further Interest:
Since I live in New Mexico and have done a number of excursions over the years exploring the old Apacheria country, including the site where Victorio ambushed the Buffalo Soldiers and bullet hits are still visible on the rocks, this story is of particular interest to me. I’ve been doing some internet trolling and came upon a 16 page letter written by Captain Lawton on November 7, 1886 from Fort Huachuca, Arizona Territory to his closest friend George Albee and boldly inscribed by Lawton in the blank margin along the full left side of the first page “THIS LETTER IS PERSONAL AND IS NOT FOR PUBLICATION”. Entirely in Lawton’s hand with his usual signature. Long about page 12 or 13 the following line is written: “…Send the new gun [I ordered] by express.”
This line doesn’t refer to what gun it is but the source of the information is dated 2004 and the [I ordered] was added by the editor. So back on November of 1886 Lawton was expecting a gun from Albee and asked him to send it by express. If he is referring to the 1886 Winchester it seems like an odd way to receive a presentation rifle and if it was not that rifle, how many rifles would Lawton have gotten from Albee? And….back in 2004 the person posting this thought Lawton had ordered a gun himself instead of Albee giving him one.
Winchesters, the Old West, Imagination. Makes for interesting speculation……..
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Online
The inherent ‘problems’ identified questions the integrity of the firearm itself? Is this indeed really serial number 1, if the real serial number 1 still exists? One thing that I found troubling prior to the auction is the lack of provenance, when many lesser firearms have iron-clad provenance. I would expect something like this to have originated from the descendants of Lawton, or to have an ownership by individuals such as Norm Flayderman, Tommy Rholes, etc. The fakers are becoming increasingly proficient.
Indeed, it does not take much searching to see what an 1886 with a two digit serial number looks like:
http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/early-1st-model-1886-winchester.htm
One can clearly see that the ladder sight contains ‘1876’ on it, and that the caliber marking is in an italic font. Someone with the skills could easily replicate this or modify to suit their needs…
Rick Hill said
Just Saying…………….. Richard Ellis showed me this rifle about 25 years ago. It was at a show but can’t remember which one (maybe Winter Vegas or Denver). At that time, there was no gold watch, provenance or engraved barrel associated with the rifle. Then of course, it may have been a different Model 1886, serial no. 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As best as you can recall, did the rifle you viewed look like this one in condition? A lot of people must have seen the rifle at that show, so it would be a known entity. Pretty risky to engrave names on it after that fairly recent time.
Wolfbait:
As I recall, the gun had more wear on it and did not have any brilliant case colors on the receiver but that was about 25 years ago and I am an 1894 collector so couldn’t swear to the condition issue…………
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
WallyB, BertH, Rick Hill and All;
As many of you know I’ve a Winchester Model 1866 with significant history linking it to the battles at the Little Big Horn and the Wounded Knee fight. Needless to say this Carbine is probably one of if not the most researched firearms existing today. Or so I’ve been told. With over 14 years of searching trying to gather evidence linking it to these two major events of Western history. As most also know it’s been on loan and in the care of the NRA’s museum system for about 6 years. I would say since the publication and World Wide distribution of my research, and the new information revealed about not only this weapon, but other non-issued firearms carried by some of the soldiers of that time period, much controversy by the so called Experts did exist. After 10 years of vetting none thus far have found fault in my research to my knowledge. It’s been suggested by many that since being almost 74 years of age it’s time to pass it on to another “Caretaker”. That to sell it I should present it to any one of the major Auction Houses for its sale. After hearing, reading and seeing what has been happening within a number of these Major Houses why anyone in their right mind might purchase from this source is beyond my comprehension. The latest, this Model 1886, serial #1 discussed here is not the first nor will it be the last that raises questions and doubts in the minds of Collectors and Buyers. This certainly doesn’t help me nor any other Collector wishing to sell their collection, be it one Major piece or an entire collection. I’ve been told that you get the best return through the “Auction Route”. Have any of you read their contracts? I and my Attorney have, and found some of them most interesting. With one of these Houses, they want you to be forever liable as to how they present the item, and after you’re dead, your heirs assume the same liability. Cute, isn’t it. This being the case, one could never spend the money received from the sale of the item, and still get a good nights sleep. So why auction it at all? I’m open to any and all other suggestions as how to sell my Carbine. If I were in a monetary position to donate it to one of several Musuems interested in adding it to their collection, I would. However I’m not.
Apache (Ya Ta Hey Kola)
Does anyone happen to know the shipping date of the Model 1886 with the #1 serial ?
This doesn’t specifically mention Serial Number 1 but states the first rifle was manufactured on August 30, 1886.
http://www.lssu.edu/faculty/jmadl/Model1886WinchesterResearch.htm
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Interesting at best I am going to have to go back and read up on my history I have allways thought
Miles Nelson was the one credited for the surrender of the Great warrior
I re read the RIA description and they were just giving Lawton the credit for bringing
in Geronimo to for the actual surrender i was reading something in where it wasnt
GentlemenJim;
Actually the Army Officer that convinced Geronimo to give it up was Lieutenant Gatewood helped by Apache Scouts. Both he and Captain Lawton brought Geronimo in. General Nelson Miles was afraid (Politically) to meet with Geronimo because the Apache might do to him what he did to General Crook, and not surrender at all. He would meet with Geronimo only after he was in secure custody and not before. He did however want Geronimo’s rifle, and ordered one of the Officers already with Geronimo to confiscate it and send it to him. Hence, General Miles received the Winchester 1876 supposedly carried by Geronimo at his surrender in September of 1886. There is NO PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE that Geronimo actually carried a Winchester 1876 at all. There are photos of him carrying an 1879 Springfield rifle in combat prior to his surrender. These were taken in March of 1886 when he met to discuss surrender with General Crook.
Apache (Ya Ta Hey Kola)
Has a consensus been reached on this gun?
If you can’t convince them, confuse them
What I got out of this is that the rifle may have been purchased by Lawton himself and the inscription was probably added a century later.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
When there are the “problems” already identified, with this firearm, and associated objects, you start to question “what else isn’t right”. Here is my best educated guess:
Lawton clearly did have in his hands a very early 1886 Winchester. But, was it Number 1? Probably we will never know, for sure, but, odds are, it was not Number 1. One of the first hundred or so, but unlikely to be Number 1. Is this gun surely and TRULY Number one, or is it a later one, not much later, perhaps in the first few hundred, that was modified to be number 1, or is it a later one that was modified to be Number 1? There are differences between the very early ones, and later 1886’s, and it would be easiest to modify an early one to be Number 1, than a later one. The skills necessary to make these modifications ARE out there, and the level of skill and deception seems to increase correspondingly with the monetary value these Winchesters are bringing.
I find the location of the inscription highly unusual. Back in the day, at this time, inscriptions tended to be on the receiver, and not on the barrel. This is rather puzzling. Also, if the watch was truly $1,000 in 1886, which we proved it was not, more or less, the firearm presented with it, I would expect, would not be so simple. Yes, Winchester would be just gearing up for this model, but maybe special order features were not yet available, but, at the very least, I would expect an engraving pattern on the receiver more in line with some of the examples found in George Madis’ book.
It made ABC News
“An 1886 Winchester rifle that once belonged to a man who helped capture Apache leader Geronimo has sold for $1.2 million at an auction.
The Rock Island Auction Co., of Illinois, says it became the most expensive single firearm ever sold at auction when it was presented for sale in late April. It went to an undisclosed buyer.
George Albee was working for Winchester and was able to secure serial No. 1 of their newest rifle design in 1886. He presented the rifle as a gift to a Civil War buddy, U.S. Army Capt. Henry Ware Lawton, who had just led the operation that captured Geronimo.
The auction company says other guns have sold higher as a pair, but the Winchester brought in the highest price for a single firearm. “
firearm.”
Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles
“There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”
Teddy Roosevelt
Same story verbatim was in the LA Times and other outlets. At least a dozen friends sent it to me from all over. I love how the story is embellished by omission.
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
supergimp said
Same story verbatim was in the LA Times and other outlets. At least a dozen friends sent it to me from all over. I love how the story is embellished by omission.
Yep. $1.265 million didn’t buy a single firearm. It bought a gun, a sword, a watch, and a “story”. The “story” part was about a million of the purchase price.
Rick Hill said
Just Saying…………….. Richard Ellis showed me this rifle about 25 years ago. It was at a show but can’t remember which one (maybe Winter Vegas or Denver). At that time, there was no gold watch, provenance or engraved barrel associated with the rifle. Then of course, it may have been a different Model 1886, serial no. 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would like to know what engraving was on the barrel of Winchester 1886 #1 besides “Alby to Lawton”. Since my father owned that gun for nearly 20 years, buying it 3 years after it surfaced from the attic of the Lawton family home, being sold at auction and then a year later being sold again at auction where my fathers friend bought it for my dad. The gun lettered as a full oct, full mag gun with standard wood (dyed lightly yellow by the grease it was stored in), requested by Alby from the factory (he was selling Hotchkiss guns to the US Military) to his friend Lawton after he captured Geronimo. The gun was stored in a box of grease, found by a grandson who got the house and was found while cleaning it out. Ellis and another guy bought the #1 after they bought my fathers whole 1886 collection, but dad held #1 for a year or 18 months when they came back and said they had a buyer for it. If you saw it, it was after that sale and it was probably at Vegas Winter and dad would have been there, with a lot of Colt New Services on the table. The research my dad did on the gun found the watch and tried to buy it but the figure was too high, the owner of the sword wouldn’t sell. The watch and fob were incredible and worth more than 2/3s of the price they “got” for the group, the sword was about equivalent to #1 and I was told it was an incredible sword, #1 was fairly plain Jane, serial was just a slash on the tang and the inscription on top of the barrel was just a simple work engraving “Alby to Lawton”.
94shorties said
Bert H. said
wolfbait said
Bert H. said
Rick,
RIA indicated that it letters with the engraved barrel? I now wonder what the real truth is.
Bert
Is there a copy of a factory letter in all that stuff?
I don’t know… I did not take the time to read it all. I focused on the actual pictures of the rifle and watch, and the auction description write-up.
Austin\
Bert H. said
Rick,
RIA indicated that it letters with the engraved barrel? I now wonder what the real truth is.
Bert
Bert,
It does not letter with the engraving.
Austin’s Guns, You state that it does not letter with the engraving. Do you have a copy of the letter or serial number search?
It letters with an inscription on the top of the barrel, Alby to Lawton, I know I held the letter, the gun, and heard the story hundreds of times, my dad was the 3 or 4th owner, lettered the gun and did the research. His research showed a watch with a heavy gold chain, from the Cattlemens Assoc of Arizona (?) to Lawton and was a Patek Phillipe with engraved cover stating from/to, the sword was from Lawton’s unit, not sure but think Civil War, and was a presentation grade sword. My father wanted to display the #1, watch and sword as a unit at shows but the watch and sword owners wouldn’t sell at that time.
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