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The ULTIMATE Winchester: Model 1886, Serial Number 1
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April 30, 2016 - 2:33 pm
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Does anyone know what this one went for?

http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/67/lid/1025

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April 30, 2016 - 2:37 pm
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1.1 mil before the juiceSurprised

Bob

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73_86cutaway.jpg

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April 30, 2016 - 4:01 pm
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I think the “juice” is 15%, or 165K. So $1.265 million. WOW!

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April 30, 2016 - 4:03 pm
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What’s the most ever paid for an 1886? If this is the most, what’s second highest? What is the most ever paid for a Winchester?

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April 30, 2016 - 4:53 pm
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OK Guys, which one of you bought it?

Another question, what is the bid increment over 1 mil?

Bob

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April 30, 2016 - 6:10 pm
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I believe estimate was 1/2 > 3/4 Million, a nice premium over that.

I wonder how the auction Winchesters in general are selling in regard to their estimates?

IMG_0805-Copy-Copy-Copy.JPG

Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

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April 30, 2016 - 6:15 pm
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Kevin Jones said

I believe estimate was 1/2 > 3/4 Million, a nice premium over that.

I wonder how the auction Winchesters in general are selling in regard to their estimates?

I’ve been watching all morning (bid a little, no joy really). Everything’s been at or above the mark pretty much. At least of the stuff I was interested in.

WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.

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April 30, 2016 - 7:03 pm
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My guess is that the gold watch and all of the documented provenance with it accounted for approximately 75% of the sale price.  When I read the part about the watch selling for $1,000 when it was new back in 1885, it floored me!  The rifle itself is very significant, but I doubt it would have sold for more than $250,000 if it was all by itself.  Somebody sure stepped up to the plate with that purchase!!

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April 30, 2016 - 7:12 pm
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Bert H. said

My guess is that the gold watch and all of the documented provenance with it accounted for approximately 75% of the sale price.  When I read the part about the watch selling for $1,000 when it was new back in 1885, it floored me!  The rifle itself is very significant, but I doubt it would have sold for more than $250,000 if it was all by itself.  Somebody sure stepped up to the plate with that purchase!!

Bert

Okay, then my “gut instinct” isn’t too far off! When I heard about this gun coming up for sale several months ago, I “guessed” the pre-auction estimate would be $125 to $250K. At that price (the low end), I might consider buying it, although in the long run, it would prove to be painful, to say the least! With an estimate of $500 to $750K, I thought it seemed high and I doubted it would reach the low end pre-auction estimate. Obviously, I was proven wrong!

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May 1, 2016 - 12:09 pm
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I had the privilege of removing this rifle from the display case and held it for close examination for several minutes the other evening. What a great rifle, and a great story.

Austin 

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May 1, 2016 - 2:27 pm
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Does anyone know the recent history of this firearm? Who owned it recently and who might have bought it? I wonder if it was deaccessioned by a museum and/or purchased by one yesterday? It would be a GREAT display for a museum!

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May 1, 2016 - 3:57 pm
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I sincerely doubt that a museum was involved in the purchase, as they seldom ever have that kind of available funding. 99% of the museums rely on donations to exist, including the Buffalo Bill Historical Center where the CFM display is located. A substantial number of firearms in the CFM display are donated or on loan.

My bet is that the buyer of that Model 1886 and the Gold watch is a well heeled private collector, and possibly a WACA member… and No, I am not going to mention any names.

Bert

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May 1, 2016 - 7:45 pm
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Bert H and All;

      I know it’s not a Winchester, but it seems that no one knows the where abouts of the Springfield rifle that Geronimo carried while in the field, this between his surrender to Clum and his almost surrender to General Crook in March of 1886. He surrendered his Sharps rifle to Clum. It now resides in the U.S. Military Academy Museum at West Point N.Y. He reportedly surrendered a Winchester to General Miles, although Geronimo actually never gave the rifle directly to Gen. Miles, but surrendered it to an Army Officer who then sent it to Miles. As far as the Springfield rifle he carried both in the field (Warpath) and to the surrender talks with General Crook, this firearm seems to have vanished in time. The rifle depicted in the famous photo of Geronimo kneeling with the rifle is actually the same Springfield in a carbine stock that he carried while on the Warpath, this shown in several photos in a full rifle stock configuration. Two thoughts on this one. 1) what happened to this rifle? 2) If ever found, what are the thoughts on its value at auction? This being the only firearm known to be carried by Geronimo and photographed while he was in actual combat against the U.S. Army. Something to ponder.

Apache (Ya Ta Hey Kola)ConfusedConfusedConfusedWinkWink

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May 2, 2016 - 4:00 am
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I am not qualified to even hazard a guess as to what it would be worth.

Bert

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May 3, 2016 - 7:21 am
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I’m surprised this rifle did not sell for more. This rifle and watch are fantastic historical artifacts, and there are lots of people out there to whom a few million is no big deal. The Billy the Kid picture sold to Koch at auction for 2.3 million. If people with wealth similar to Koch became interested in unique historic firearms, their value could be in the tens of millions+ like Picasso paintings or high grade jewelry. The monetary value of tangible American history like this rifle is only limited by the interest of the worlds wealthiest people. To me, owning a fantastic piece of history like this rifle would be a tremendous joy. I wonder what the worlds 1,600+ billionaires buy that could give them more pride of ownership than this rifle and it’s provenance.  

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May 3, 2016 - 10:34 am
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wolfbait said

I’m surprised this rifle did not sell for more. This rifle and watch are fantastic historical artifacts, and there are lots of people out there to whom a few million is no big deal. The Billy the Kid picture sold to Koch at auction for 2.3 million. If people with wealth similar to Koch became interested in unique historic firearms, their value could be in the tens of millions+ like Picasso paintings or high grade jewelry. The monetary value of tangible American history like this rifle is only limited by the interest of the worlds wealthiest people. To me, owning a fantastic piece of history like this rifle would be a tremendous joy. I wonder what the worlds 1,600+ billionaires buy that could give them more pride of ownership than this rifle and it’s provenance.  

Well, for one thing, it’s a GUN. Many folks with money make it in finance, computers, etc. They are educated in institutions with a liberal slant. Not to get political, but liberals don’t like firearms. Not to say that someone who is liberal might not collect this, or that one might not be educated by a liberal institution or work in an environment that is decidedly anti second amendment, but I envision the probable pool of potential owners to consist largely of very successful small business owners, many or most of who may not even have attended a college or university (decreases the chances of being preached anti second amendment propaganda).

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May 3, 2016 - 1:56 pm
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mrcvs said

wolfbait said

I’m surprised this rifle did not sell for more. This rifle and watch are fantastic historical artifacts, and there are lots of people out there to whom a few million is no big deal. The Billy the Kid picture sold to Koch at auction for 2.3 million. If people with wealth similar to Koch became interested in unique historic firearms, their value could be in the tens of millions+ like Picasso paintings or high grade jewelry. The monetary value of tangible American history like this rifle is only limited by the interest of the worlds wealthiest people. To me, owning a fantastic piece of history like this rifle would be a tremendous joy. I wonder what the worlds 1,600+ billionaires buy that could give them more pride of ownership than this rifle and it’s provenance.  

Well, for one thing, it’s a GUN. Many folks with money make it in finance, computers, etc. They are educated in institutions with a liberal slant. Not to get political, but liberals don’t like firearms. Not to say that someone who is liberal might not collect this, or that one might not be educated by a liberal institution or work in an environment that is decidedly anti second amendment, but I envision the probable pool of potential owners to consist largely of very successful small business owners, many or most of who may not even have attended a college or university (decreases the chances of being preached anti second amendment propaganda).

MRCVS, you are right as we are experiencing the same dilemma in the collectable custom knife community. Our association (custom knife collectors assoc) has a couple hundred thousand dollar project underway to help promote custom knives as the functional art they are to the more mainstream collectable communities. It seems to be an uphill battle though as many coin, art, watch, car etc collectors see knives as nothing more than dangerous weapons.

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Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

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May 3, 2016 - 4:25 pm
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Wolfbait;

    For the most part I think that the Uber Wealthy really couldn’t care less what the Collectable might be. Most only would like to show their peers “Look what I have, that you do not”. Childish yes, but it’s the only explanation I’ve been able to come up with. Many of the very wealthy that I’ve known over the last 50 years, and I’ve known many, rarely if ever read anything other than technical books. Many haven’t a clue when it comes to history or historical events. Their main interest seems to be only how to make more money. If they collect at all, it’s only what’s the current thing in their crowd. They’ll drop millions on an old racing Ferrari, put it in a garage, never drive it, and when a new toy comes up or they get bored with the Ferrari sell it at B.J’s in Scottsdale. This of course to be seen and envied by their associates. Of course there are exceptions, just not that many. I agree that when it comes to historical events and items that are connected to these events, be they Winchesters, Ferraris, Rare Diamonds, or whatever, how can one put a price on them. It’s not as though you can go down the street and buy another for a better price at the next store. This Winchester and Gold Watch sold for a significant amount, as they should have, and yet there are other perhaps more important historical items out there for sale that seem to never get a second glance. Go figure. When it comes to items of important historical significance the Auction Houses seem to be the ones that present them to the Agents of the wealthy, whos job is to find the “New Toy” for their Bosses. If I sound cynical it’s because I am. I only wish it were without cause.

Apache (Ya Ta Hey Kola)CryCryWink

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May 3, 2016 - 4:47 pm
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Apache,

Why are you cynical, with cause? Not sure what this means? Thanks!

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May 3, 2016 - 5:44 pm
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MRCVS;

     After thinking about it, probably just Sour Grapes I guess. Nothing more nor anything less.

Apache (Ya Ta Hey Kola)Embarassed

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