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Quick Help: Win 1873 look original ?
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November 21, 2017 - 9:28 pm
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Follow up with Cody shows no records, no dates, no data. Friend said they showed him Pauline’s letter, so either it was fake or she commented on the engraving only.

 I sent an email to her to confirm.

Buyer put deposit down, but is in 3 day period, so he will request return.

I notice the GI description is very carefully written.

Bill

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November 21, 2017 - 10:38 pm
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 Does the grain of the wood look European? T/R

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November 22, 2017 - 1:21 am
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T/R

I only have the GI pictures to go by, so I can’t help on that one.

Bill

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November 22, 2017 - 4:10 am
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How odd is it that Cody does not have info on this 1873 serial number?

Walter

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November 22, 2017 - 4:19 am
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Blueliner said
Follow up with Cody shows no records, no dates, no data. Friend said they showed him Pauline’s letter, so either it was fake or she commented on the engraving only.

 I sent an email to her to confirm.

Buyer put deposit down, but is in 3 day period, so he will request return.

I notice the GI description is very carefully written.

Bill  

Bill,

So Cody says this serial number is a blank Line?

Bob

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73_86cutaway.jpg

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November 22, 2017 - 4:45 am
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wallyb said
How odd is it that Cody does not have info on this 1873 serial number?

Walter  

Good point.  After seeing the posts regarding the missing record for this serial number, I’ve looked very closely at the numbers on the lower tang and compared them to genuine Model 1873’s of the same period and have come to the conclusion that this serial number is a fake.  It one looks closely one can see that the numbers are engraved, not stamped.  Besides that, specific problems are:  The B is missing the serifs at top and bottom.  On the 5 the tail should in in a little dot but doesn’t.  The 9, like the 5, should have the tail ending in a little dot but, again,  doesn’t.  The top of the 7 should have little serifs at both ends but they are missing.

1876-4-1.jpg

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November 22, 2017 - 11:44 am
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Not that I don’t have serious doubts about this rifle – I do.  But, is it possible that given a plan to produce a very elaborately engraved rifle, they pulled a receiver from the line before it was serialized – with the plan to engrave the serial number rather than stamp it?  Might this also explain why it doesn’t appear in the standard ledger?  I could see a seller asserting this explanation – whether they knew it to be true or not. However, I suppose for some unique rifles selected to receive very special treatment, deviations in some of the standard production methods occurred.

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November 22, 2017 - 2:05 pm
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steve004 said
Not that I don’t have serious doubts about this rifle – I do.  But, is it possible that given a plan to produce a very elaborately engraved rifle, they pulled a receiver from the line before it was serialized – with the plan to engrave the serial number rather than stamp it?  Might this also explain why it doesn’t appear in the standard ledger?  I could see a seller asserting this explanation – whether they knew it to be true or not. However, I suppose for some unique rifles selected to receive very special treatment, deviations in some of the standard production methods occurred.  

All the more reason for Winchester to have recorded this serial number.  Doesn’t make sense for them to make an elaborate, presentation type rifle and not even record that serial number.

1876-4-1.jpg

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November 22, 2017 - 3:29 pm
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The serial number is correct and was stamped. The B is  correct for that serial number. 

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November 22, 2017 - 3:30 pm
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1873man said

Bill,

So Cody says this serial number is a blank Line?

Bob  

1873man said

Bill,

So Cody says this serial number is a blank Line?

Bob  

That’s correct Bob

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November 22, 2017 - 3:46 pm
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 Comparing the serial number to “191485B” in Jim Gordan’s book 1 on page 175, the 1 9 5 and the B look right when you consider the fact the lower tang is refinished. When refinishing they remove metal and the stamp gets shallower and the serif’s disappear. T/R

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November 22, 2017 - 4:25 pm
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1873man said
The serial number is correct and was stamped. The B is  correct for that serial number. 

Bob  

Here are serial numbers in the same range, all with B’s that have serifs.

1873.jpgImage Enlarger1873-2.jpgImage Enlarger1873-3.jpgImage Enlarger1873-8.jpgImage Enlarger

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1876-4-1.jpg

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

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November 22, 2017 - 11:46 pm
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Here is one without the serifs. Its a nickel heavy barrel 22

Bob

 

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November 23, 2017 - 2:26 pm
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After seeing the reconfigured buttplate/stock I wouldn’t consider it any further. 

No telling what else has been altered. 

IMG_0805-Copy-Copy-Copy.JPG

Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

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November 23, 2017 - 2:32 pm
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I suspect many aspects of this rifle have been altered.  However, I would very much enjoy having a discussion with Pauline about the engraving.

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November 23, 2017 - 2:47 pm
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1873man said
Here is one without the serifs. Its a nickel heavy barrel 22

Bob
   

So, I’m guessing that the presence of serifs, or lack of them, on the “B” is irrelevant because Winchester maintained no patterns here.

1876-4-1.jpg

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November 23, 2017 - 2:51 pm
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Another possibility (probability) for the engraved serial number on the tang could very well be that the original tang was replaced along the way.  This could have been done by a gunsmith or, more likely, by Winchester themselves on an R & R.  Many of the 1873’s with set triggers developed problems and were returned for changing the set trigger to a standard trigger.  When this was done, a blank lower tang was installed in place of the original one.

1876-4-1.jpg

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

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November 23, 2017 - 3:13 pm
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Wincacher said
Another possibility (probability) for the engraved serial number on the tang could very well be that the original tang was replaced along the way.  This could have been done by a gunsmith or, more likely, by Winchester themselves on an R & R.  Many of the 1873’s with set triggers developed problems and were returned for changing the set trigger to a standard trigger.  When this was done, a blank lower tang was installed in place of the original one.  

If that is true, it would be darn interesting to know the original serial number of the rifle.  Also, if they replaced the lower tang with a blank one, why does it have a serial number?

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November 23, 2017 - 3:33 pm
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steve004 said

  Also, if they replaced the lower tang with a blank one, why does it have a serial number?  

Someone may very well have wanted to re-mark the original serial number.  Or they simply didn’t want to have a rifle without a serial number.

1876-4-1.jpg

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November 23, 2017 - 5:34 pm
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 Or perhaps someone had a plain gun that lettered a blank line and decided to build a fantasy gun. T/R 

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