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The problem with that is the coating only appears on high condition guns. I don’t want to take a razor blade to my gun and try to scrape any off.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
If it’s only on high-condition guns, only lever guns, only on the outside, only on case hardened parts, but *not* on the inside (i.e. non-showing edges where some could be taken) and not on adjacent wood, then I can only envision it’s application by a really steady hand (i.e. not dipping). In any event, I suspect a lab could determine it’s make-up without hurting anything and maybe without out even taking any ( spectrophotometry? or the like?). Anyway, I’m no scientists and it’s over my head.
November 7, 2015
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Odd coincidence; I’m reading Brophy’s tome on Marlins and he mentions their CC receivers were given a protective coating.
Huck Riley said
A very thin coat of raw (not boiled) linseed oil will dry hard and clear like lacquer.
Well, that’s an extremely easy proposition to put to the test: just apply the raw oil to any metal surface, and sit back to wait for it to dry hard & clear. (Suspect you’ll be waiting a while.)
That’s an interesting piece of information from Brophy. For over 40 years, I have occasionally seen the clear coating on Marlins and Winchesters (and Savage levers). It has always been my impression that it has been done by the factories. But as I said in an earlier post, I really don’t know.
clarence said
Huck Riley said
A very thin coat of raw (not boiled) linseed oil will dry hard and clear like lacquer.Well, that’s an extremely easy proposition to put to the test: just apply the raw oil to any metal surface, and sit back to wait for it to dry hard & clear. (Suspect you’ll be waiting a while.)
I don’t think it is an extremely easy proposition to test precisely because you would be waiting a long while. (They invented boiled linseed oil to shorten the time to dry.)
Raw linseed oil applied properly (i.e. very thin coat so there is no gunk which results from drying outside-in) will protect metal. The outfitter I used to work for had me do his misery whips, double bits, shovels and other tools every winter. They sat in a barn all winter and were still not hard the next spring. They were used, and re-coated, stored, repeat. The intent was never for the linseed oil to get hard or create a lacquer-like coating. Rather, it was viewed like any other oil you’d apply, only it was organic and better for wood than a petroleum product. However, if left for several years (like a color-cased safe queen that never gets used?) the linseed will dry to a clear lacquer like coating.
That doesn’t explain why it’s only lever guns, not on the wood or adjacent blued metal, or the inside, or who put it there; but if we knew what the material was, it *might* place us a little closer to figuring out who put it there, when, and why. What is it?
Huck Riley said
That doesn’t explain why it’s only lever guns, not on the wood or adjacent blued metal, or the inside, or who put it there; but if we knew what the material was, it *might* place us a little closer to figuring out who put it there, when, and why. What is it?
For any kind of industrial, production-line, application where drying or curing time needed to be reduced to a minimum, I don’t see any choice available at the time but lacquer and possibly shellac, though the latter has poor durability; varnish & other oil-based finishes seem far too slow.
On page 595 of “The Winchester Book by George Madis” he explains the process of applying a piano finish to the wood with hand rubbed linseed oil. Linseed oil would have been there and handy to apply to a deluxe gun. T/R
clarence said
For any kind of industrial, production-line, application where drying or curing time needed to be reduced to a minimum, I don’t see any choice available at the time but lacquer and possibly shellac, though the latter has poor durability; varnish & other oil-based finishes seem far too slow.
That makes sense, weighs in favor of a non-factory application, and possibly an inadvertent (?) result of dried (linseed?) oil. And it also demonstrates why knowing what this stuff is might help the experts decide the issue in this thread (who dunnit?).
I would also think that a factory would dip the whole piece and not carefully paint it on just the outside colors, avoiding everything else. On the other hand, I would think a non-factory application would get on areas other than just the case colors and I’d think it would be on other case color guns too, not just lever guns.
I know some of you guys are rolling in the dough! 
Find a lab and let us know!
TR said
On page 595 of “The Winchester Book by George Madis” he explains the process of applying a piano finish to the wood with hand rubbed linseed oil. Linseed oil would have been there and handy to apply to a deluxe gun. T/R
Although it’s seldom used anymore, due to the superiority of synthetics, “piano finish,” aka “French polish,” meant in the 19th C. the labor-intensive application of multiple, hand-rubbed, coats of shellac applied to indoor furniture, and not meant for outdoor use. If Winchester was using the term to describe any form of oil finish, they were taking liberties with its usual meaning, assuming that Madis had his facts quite right in this case.
TR said
On page 595 of “The Winchester Book by George Madis” he explains the process of applying a piano finish to the wood with hand rubbed linseed oil. Linseed oil would have been there and handy to apply to a deluxe gun. T/R
Interesting how the different editions of Madis’ book differed. Perhaps he edited his book between editions as he learned more. In my edition (1979) this reference is on page 601 and states:
“An oiled finish was most popular for arms of all models. Stocks which were to receive the oiled finish were sanded smooth, then were carefully scraped with an especially edged tool which removed any “whisker” which remained after sanding. The scraping also had a burnishing effect, giving a natural gloss or ‘piano finish’ to the wood. The first coats of linseed oil, mixed with walnut hull oil for coloring, were applied and allowed to be absorbed by the wood. Final coats of linseed oil were rubbed by hand and allowed to cure before the stock and fore end were finally assembled to the gun. If a high gloss oiled finish was desired instead of the more popular satin oiled finish, more coats of oil, mixed with drier, were hand rubbed and carefully built up, resulting in a high gloss ‘extra finished oiled stock.’ “
In this edition he seemed to think that the wood itself was given a high gloss before finishing and that driers were added to the linseed oil towards the end of the process to obtain a further high gloss.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
I think the above information about the efforts Winchester went through to finish their stocks – particularly an extra finished stock – is all part of why these rifles are so much more than just wood and steel. It’s a testament to the times – when people knew what quality was and the outcome was viewed as worth the time it took to produce it.
On the topic of a protective clear coat covering case colored receivers. I’m thinking that many of the technical points made regarding how it doesn’t make sense that Winchester did this – don’t hold up well given the reference from Brophy that their coatings were done at the Marlin factory. It’s like you pick up a Marlin with the coating and ask, how did this coating get on there? The documented answer is, it was applied at the time of manufacture by the Marlin factory. Then you pick up a Winchester of the same era, observe what looks like the same coating and the answer is, “no, it couldn’t have been put on at the factory.” Manufacturers didn’t use similar processes, products and techniques back then – as they do now?
Unless it was a patented process or material, I would think Winchester would copy the same process if they thought it would sell more guns.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Wincacher said
…driers were added to the linseed oil towards the end of the process to obtain a further high gloss.
This is actually the way so-called “boiled” linseed oil is produced commercially–by the addition of driers to the raw oil.
Anyone desirous of learning probably all there is to know about linseed oil, varnish, & shellac should obtain Don Newell’s Gunstock Finishing & Care, about 500 pages of almost excessively detailed info. on this subject (though it preceded all the modern synthetics).
clarence said
This is actually the way so-called “boiled” linseed oil is produced commercially–by the addition of driers to the raw oil.
Anyone desirous of learning probably all there is to know about linseed oil, varnish, & shellac should obtain Don Newell’s Gunstock Finishing & Care, about 500 pages of almost excessively detailed info. on this subject (though it preceded all the modern synthetics).
Sounds like an interesting read.
Even if the linseed oil didn’t have some sort of “drying agent”, Yall don’t supposed they would of simply put the receiver (or possibly the whole gun) into one of the massive Kilns that the factory used daily to dry the gunstocks. Just a thought.
Sincerely,
Maverick
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https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
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