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Pre-64 Model 70 with an interchangeable barrel. What do I have here?
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September 1, 2018 - 12:24 pm
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Guys,

Model 70 Rifle acquired in NZ. Old guy needed money. Claims it was built by Winchester for a safari hunter.

Serial number 251,511

Cal. 30-06

Any help would be appreciated.[Image Can Not Be Found]

Thanks,

Rich

[Image Can Not Be Found][Image Can Not Be Found]

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September 1, 2018 - 6:52 pm
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Rich,

Please send the pictures to me at [email protected] and I will post them for you.

I have never seen or heard of a Model 70 made with interchangeable barrels…

Bert

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September 4, 2018 - 12:17 am
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Here are the pictures;

image1.pngImage Enlargerimage2.pngImage EnlargerModel-70-Take-down.jpgImage Enlarger

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September 7, 2018 - 1:40 pm
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Not seeing anything of multiple barrels evident, responding simply in “take-down barrel” context. A differential suggesting complexity/considerations.

Neat! Reminiscent of Rigby, London work. Also more than hinting of Savage 99 & like systems. If: sturdy, functionally-unimpaired and retaining decent accuracy, I wouldn’t mind owning! That said, not to conjure Winchester Custom Shop engaging such project. BY SN, rifle itself early fifty production. Whether alleging CS or some kind of experimental Win now in the wild, surely sufficient notoriety to surface long before this six decades plus interim. Conversely, many quality/qualified custom gunsmithing firms capable & performing such type of conversions (typically mauser) within context of their own system designs.

Caution of neither “Rule book” consulted, nor deferring to the super-experts of this Forum beyond Bert whose observation “never seen or heard of” consistent with my predicate view. “Factory” in any context, not passing personal ‘sniff test’. If a buck for every story suggesting “factory original” term linked to value enhancing claims… Hopefully here, not factoring in the financial orbit of your acquisition.

Tentative ‘congrats’ on a nice looking, interesting rifle find; envy attached. Such pending only the quality issues above happily resolved in your favor. Hopefully a full narrative concerning, more pix and field test results forthcoming. 🙂

Closing with the notation, weakness inherent to all such take-down long guns of my experience. Physics problem. Maintaining rigid & stable joints, conveniently separable, at the nexus of two levers.

And so! Wordy points made and…
My take

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September 7, 2018 - 1:58 pm
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Thanks very much for your take!

The joint is solid. I own a Sav 99 take-down in  250-3000. The joint on this Model 70 rifle has ZERO play. The bolt must be opened in order to fully engage the latch for the two haves to connect. There is no wear-through on the bluing where the machine surfaces connect. Its magnificent.

Apparently the dealer in NZ, where this gun was delivered, received it from Winchester on behalf of the client (the previous owner). It was unclear to me whether Winchester did the mod or simply sent it somewhere to be performed then got it back to forward to the customer. I’m not sure, but the 30-06 case head embedded in the forestock (Norma, 30-06) might be telling? Perhaps a European custom shop? 

Kind regards.

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September 7, 2018 - 2:00 pm
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And btw, the scope is an old Weaver, a 1-9X variable. It looks as new also.

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September 7, 2018 - 6:21 pm
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So there is only one barrel with the rifle and hence it is a take-down vs. interchangeable barrel rifle?  My two cents is that there is no chance this rifle was made in its present form by the Winchester factory.  And yes, I am familiar with the, “never say never” concept.  Personally, I wouldn’t go there on this rifle.  Neat rifle however, and appears high quality craftsmanship. 

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September 7, 2018 - 6:59 pm
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Thanks, Steve

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September 7, 2018 - 7:35 pm
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Speaking only personally; resulting analysis of your expanded words.
First predicate that such factory work would almost surely add astronomical proportions to value. Ensuing red flags, automatic. Assertions easy. Yet ‘proof of the pudding’ challenge… In garnering ‘the’ proof itself.

In place of hard evidence, here speaking in probabilities. As noted, seriously doubting the Win factory to do such conversion. Simply not their ‘thing’. Your suggestion of middleman role, while seeming more likely, also remaining objectively quite unlikely. The principal & significant question of why? The factory putting themselves in the middle of such transaction merely exposure to possible issues. Customer satisfaction, warranty, even in Jurassic liability era, some concern no doubt of bad publicity if some kind of defect related mishap or even unhappy customer beating drum. Many good reasons not to be involved, none in context of presumably undistinguished rifle/otherwise ordinary sale. IF a particularly famous personage as customer; at least some possibility. But still… Balancing interests… Not!

What I could easily see is Winchester simply delivering the gun to some custom shop on customer behalf. But such involvement not ‘sexy’ in terms of collector interest beyond the resulting product itself.
Without hard documentation, my belief you’re swimming upstream against powerful currents. That and the gauntlet; experienced collectors, “factory original variation” claims, already moving into “hard hat” area! 🙂
From appearance and now your own hands-on observations, concluding a quite nice rifle of itself. One to be justifiably proud!

Bottom line to distinguish between “facts” and “lore”. Banter value, interesting! Economic context, often worlds apart.
Great communicating. Sorry if seeming the pessimist dousing enthusiasm!
Just another…
My take.

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September 7, 2018 - 7:44 pm
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Hi Y’all-

I’ve yet to reply to this post b/c I don’t think I have much useful to contribute.  I’ve never run across an allegedly factory takedown M70.  OTOH the factory apparently did build M54 prototype rifles that were takedown, so they certainly could do it.  Heck, they built enough M95 takedowns in high intensity chamberings!!!

I’m not familiar enough with the takedown mechanism used by the Winchester factory (on myriad lever guns) to say whether this takedown mechanism looks like it uses factory parts.  I’d be pretty sure that, if the gun was done by Winchester, they would not have reinvented a one-of mechanism.  They would have most likely adapted parts as used on other models.  Hopefully one of our many lever gun experts can comment on this point?

I would like to see a photo of the barrel markings (if any), ramp, etc.  The photos Bert posted don’t show the right views to tell that it’s not a new non-factory barrel.  I’d also be pretty sure that if the factory made it the barrel would be marked as a Winchester.  The stock was certainly made from a M70 stock, but the pad is non-factory and the varnish doesn’t look quite right in the pics.  
 
My wholly uninformed guess is that I’m looking at the work of a very capable gunsmith practicing on a standard M70 30-06 that possibly included a new barrel.  Neat rifle, though!!!!Laugh
 
Lou

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September 7, 2018 - 10:42 pm
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Thanks to all of you for your input. Just to be clear, Im only interested in where it came from. This thing was acquired for peanuts. Id just like to know who did it.

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September 8, 2018 - 10:01 am
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Have you separated the wood to see if there are any shop markings on any metal surface?

Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....

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September 10, 2018 - 6:38 pm
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Here are the additional pictures…  interesting rifle, but I do not believe that it was Winchester’s handi-work.

Bert

IMG_0627.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0628.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0631.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0633.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0634.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0639.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0643.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0650.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0652.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0653.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0654.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0656.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0658.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0660.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0661.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0663.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0671.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0703.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0707.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_0709.jpgImage Enlarger

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September 10, 2018 - 6:53 pm
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I expected to see a gunsmith’s name somewhere on the takedown hardware. Latch looks familiar but can’t place it.

 

Mike

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September 12, 2018 - 1:18 am
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Bert H. said
Here are the additional pictures…  interesting rifle, but I do not believe that it was Winchester’s handi-work.

Bert

I agree with Bert on this one. I’m not shooting the work down, but believe it non-factory as well. Else, Why would it appear that the Proof Stamp has been cut? If it was factory, I don’t think the proof mark would look or be this way.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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