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On the subject of Returned and Repaired Letters, Here's one for a Model 1885
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June 6, 2020 - 2:44 am
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Here’s one for a Model 1885 I’ve owned for 27 years now, presumably the “Returned and Repaired” part was for the installation of a part round part octagon barrel and a single set trigger because this is how the rifle currently differs from as it letters and these are improvements over original.  But, I cannot prove this, so not sure if this hurts its value, or not.

Winchester 1885, serial number 26256

 

Rifle

32/40

#3, 26-inch, octagon barrel

Plain trigger

Plain pistol grip

Mid Range and Beach sights

Received in the warehouse on September 10, 1888

Shipped from the warehouse on September 11, 1888

Order number 12069

Returned and repaired on September 9, 1892

No other information is available for this serial number.

 

Comments and/or thoughts desired.  Not sure what to make of the letter not matching the current configuration, other than I really like this gun.  One of the best uses for $1800 in this lifetime, which was the cost when purchased 30 January 1993.

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Probable? Yes. Documentable? We may never know. I dream of the day the Winchester repair shop log is found in the Cody archives or elsewhere. People much more knowledgeable than me just smile when I babble about the possibility. But in the words of a wise man; never say “never”. 

 

Mike

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June 6, 2020 - 3:44 am
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I’d buy it!

If the barrel is a 1/2 octagon 26″ No.3 in 32/40, I wonder if it was just a clerical error that they didn’t note it as 1/2 round instead of the full octagon. 

Sincerely,

Maverick

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June 6, 2020 - 3:53 am
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mrcvs said
Here’s one for a Model 1885 I’ve owned for 27 years now, presumably the “Returned and Repaired” part was for the installation of a part round part octagon barrel and a single set trigger because this is how the rifle currently differs from as it letters and these are improvements over original.  But, I cannot prove this, so not sure if this hurts its value, or not.

Winchester 1885, serial number 26256

 

Rifle

32/40

#3, 26-inch, octagon barrel

Plain trigger

Plain pistol grip

Mid Range and Beach sights

Received in the warehouse on September 10, 1888

Shipped from the warehouse on September 11, 1888

Order number 12069

Returned and repaired on September 9, 1892

No other information is available for this serial number.

 

Comments and/or thoughts desired.  Not sure what to make of the letter not matching the current configuration, other than I really like this gun.  One of the best uses for $1800 in this lifetime, which was the cost when purchased 30 January 1993.  

Can you post a picture showing me everything you see marked on the bottom of the barrel under the forend stock and the flat-spring?  Also the left side of the lower tang?

Bert

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June 6, 2020 - 4:00 am
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Bert H. said

Can you post a picture showing me everything you see marked on the bottom of the barrel under the forend stock and the flat-spring?  Also the left side of the lower tang?

Bert  

OKay will do.  However I will not have access to this rifle for several months.  When I do, I will provide the photographs you request.

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June 6, 2020 - 4:21 am
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Maverick said
I’d buy it!

If the barrel is a 1/2 octagon 26″ No.3 in 32/40, I wonder if it was just a clerical error that they didn’t note it as 1/2 round instead of the full octagon. 
  

If there was no “R&R,” that would be a plausible speculation; but since there IS a proof of a factory return, speculation is unnecessary–the handwriting on the wall is too clear to dismiss. 

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Maverick said

If the barrel is a 1/2 octagon 26″ No.3 in 32/40, I wonder if it was just a clerical error that they didn’t note it as 1/2 round instead of the full octagon. 

Ive got a similar situation with an 1886 in 38-56.  The gun letters correct with the exception being the letter states a 28″ Octagon barrel but it has a 28″ 1/2 Oct barrel.  There is no R&R mentioned on the letter.  Not likely that someone swapped out the barrel down the road, just wouldnt make much sense given the condition of the rifle.  If it was a standard 26″ barrel rifle I would be a little more inclined to believe the barrel may have been swapped.  Ive chocked it up to a clerical error in the ledger, everything else about the gun appears original and unaltered.  

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June 7, 2020 - 2:30 pm
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I am sympathetic to the dilemma.  It sounds like a very nice rifle.  

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September 8, 2023 - 2:22 am
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And here are the photographs requested.  2039 on left side of frame and on buttstock under upper tang.  Strong case colouring under tang sight tells me the tang sight has been there a very long time.IMG_1970.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_1971.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_1969.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_1968.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_1967.jpegImage Enlarger

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September 8, 2023 - 2:32 am
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Take the forend stock off and take some pictures of everything you can see stamped on the unexposed bottom barrel flats.

Bert

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September 8, 2023 - 2:48 am
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Bert H. said
Take the forend stock off and take some pictures of everything you can see stamped on the unexposed bottom barrel flats.

Bert

  

How do you get that off?  I removed the one screw on the underside and couldn’t get it to budge.  Also please see my post in the repairs section.  Any ideas why removal of the buttstock and sear screw removal will now not allow for release of hammer and pulling of trigger?  Thanks.

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September 8, 2023 - 3:06 am
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mrcvs said

Bert H. said

Take the forend stock off and take some pictures of everything you can see stamped on the unexposed bottom barrel flats.

Bert

  

How do you get that off?  I removed the one screw on the underside and couldn’t get it to budge.  I don’t like to force anything, however.

  

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September 8, 2023 - 3:44 am
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mrcvs said
How do you get that off?  I removed the one screw on the underside and couldn’t get it to budge.  

Probably just stuck to the brl by old oxidized oil.  Lay a thick strip of leather or felt along the side of the wood & rap up & down both sides with a plastic mallet to try to jar it loose.  

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September 8, 2023 - 4:00 am
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The forend stock is apparently stuck in place by dried oil or grease. It only requires removing the forend stock tenon screw, and then pulling down on the nose of the forend stock.

The butt stock is removed with just two screws… the upper tang machine screw, and the rearmost (wood) screw on the lower tang. If you removed anything else, you have undoubtedly now have a loose sear spring that needs to be reinstalled.

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September 8, 2023 - 4:17 am
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I nave same situation with my 1885 single shot. The letter does not include single set trigger, Lyman #6? folding 2 leaf rear sight and front jack sight. It letters with plain trigger, checkered pistol grip stock, nickle butt plate. It also has CF on lower tang. I have seen other rifles on this site that had special features that had CF on tang. I think that means “CUSTOM FITTINGS” as probably specified on a work order. Don

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September 8, 2023 - 11:10 am
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IMG_1985.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_1986.jpegImage EnlargerAnd the underside of the barrel with forearm removed.  The only marking is a “3” indicating a #3 barrel.

A gentle but strong tug removed the forearm prior to having go the leather/felt route.?

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September 8, 2023 - 3:59 pm
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mrcvs said
IMG_1985.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_1986.jpegImage EnlargerAnd the underside of the barrel with forearm removed.  The only marking is a “3” indicating a #3 barrel.

A gentle but strong tug removed the forearm prior to having go the leather/felt route.?

  

Did you look underneath the flat spring?  I suspect not, as you should find a fair number of markings in that location.

Bert

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September 8, 2023 - 4:32 pm
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Bert H. said

mrcvs said

IMG_1985.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_1986.jpegImage EnlargerAnd the underside of the barrel with forearm removed.  The only marking is a “3” indicating a #3 barrel.

A gentle but strong tug removed the forearm prior to having go the leather/felt route.?

  

Did you look underneath the flat spring?  I suspect not, as you should find a fair number of markings in that location.

Bert

  

I didn’t remove it but from what I could see I didn’t see anything.  But I can look again, perhaps removal of the flat spring is necessary?

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September 8, 2023 - 6:18 pm
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Yes, taking the flat spring off will be required… and I am certain you will find additional stamped markings.

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September 8, 2023 - 6:24 pm
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IMG_1991.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_1990.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_1989.jpegImage EnlargerBert H. said
Yes, taking the flat spring off will be required… and I am certain you will find additional stamped markings.

I was able to angle it appropriately without removing it and “VP” in a circle and .32-40 were noted.  Note no VP on the frame or top of the 28” 1/2 round/1/2 octagon barrel.

Thank you for your patience while I remain obtuse.

The photographs added to your quote for whatever odd reason but they are there nonetheless.

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