Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 596
Member Since:
April 1, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
January 22, 2025 - 8:31 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Never hear anything about this Winchester lever model without a hammer here on the Forum – they have been around for about 70 years now – don’t know if anybody collects them but a high condition specimen like this one in .358 is a hard gun to come by. I have talked to guys that hunted with them and they found them to be reliable and durable with excellent handling characteristics.

886.JPGImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
Ohio
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 69
Member Since:
August 8, 2024
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
January 22, 2025 - 9:25 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Burt,  I have always liked the Model 88.  It reminds me of a Model 70 Feather Weight with a lever.  There is not a lot of good information on these rifles.  As I have stated before, I have found the Murray book is lacking some facts.  So, be careful in using that book for reference.  I may be wrong, but I think that 80% of them or more were made in .308 Win.  At least that is what I have noticed over the years.  With the .243, .284, and the .358 rounding out the rest of the production.  Carbines do have a premium, and we’re made fairly late in production.  So, I have found that numbers made on the carbine is much lower then the rifle.  I always thought that the Model 88 would be of more interest to the Winchester Collector.  Maybe that Day will come.  I can remember when the Model 94 was not very collectible, and now it seems to have more notice.  The other thing is that even though the Model 88 is pretty cool looking you never seen them on TV, or the Movies.  The only Movie that I can remember seeing a Model 88 was in Rambo.  That was during the helicopter seen.  I can sum it up as a good gun that has been ignored over the years.

Avatar
Texas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 734
Member Since:
January 20, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
January 22, 2025 - 11:25 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Hi Burt.  That’s a handsome example of the 88 and one in 358 is mighty hard to come by.  I wanted one but lost my taste for a new one when they quit making the pre-64 version. Eventually found a nice 1955 model although it was in .308, kept it for some decades and my nephew and I both took Whitetails with it. 

I’ve always thought the 88 was emblematic of the handsome streamlined guns introduced by WRA in the mid to late Fifties, several of which Marsh Williams had more than a little to do with, along with Harry Sefried, e.g. the Models 77, 88, 100, 50 and 59.  Of those, I think the Model 59 shotgun and 88 rifle were the standouts and the most underrated. 

The only flaw I found in my Model 88 was its trigger, which, while manageable, was incapable of being adjusted or improved to a fine, light, crisp and predictable let-off.  Unfortunately, nobody I’m aware of made a replacement trigger. Whereas the Model 88’s rival was the Savage 99, the trigger of which could be adjusted and improved to rival a good sporting mauser trigger. In fact, the last iterations of the 99 [those with factory tang safeties] came out of the box with an excellent trigger.  I once had a 99A in 243 I wish I’d never sold. 

Likewise, why the .358 WCF got no traction doesn’t make sense to me because it is a really excellent Whitetail cartridge that can reach out 250 yards with authority and reasonable trajectory and thump big hogs and Black bear [I’m told; I’ve never hunted bear.]  If you want a .358 now, you can buy a Browning BLR or do without. I like my BLR a lot.

My take is the Model 88 was introduced when everybody wanted a “high velocity”, “accurate” mauser-style bolt action rifle instead. Still, it was good enough to keep selling in its post-63 version for several years after McNamara’s Band gutshot Winchester’s Commercial Gun Department. 

- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5929
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
January 22, 2025 - 11:51 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

As a fan of the 35 Remington cartridge I’m naturally interested in the 358 Winchester. Quite honestly the styling of the 88 never did much for me but since I’ve liquidated my inventory of the R-word 35 rifles but not my 35 caliber moulds and accessories maybe the Model 88 in 358 Winchester deserves another look. If I find an example as nice as the one in the OP I’d certainly give it serious bought, most I’ve seen are not nearly that nice!

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Texas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 734
Member Since:
January 20, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
January 23, 2025 - 12:18 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Concur.

- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

Avatar
The Great State
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 709
Member Since:
April 30, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
January 23, 2025 - 4:04 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

I have a nice condition 1961 model 88 in .243. The disassembly process scares me but in reality, it doesn’t really need to be taken down that far unless necessary or broken. I think it’s a nice design from an engineering standpoint, although complicated.

 

I’ll Have to pay closer attention now that there’s a Bert H. and a Burt H. 🙂

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 480
Member Since:
December 9, 2002
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
7
January 23, 2025 - 4:32 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

My father in law loved the model 88 and when he was hot and heavy with his FFL, he bought a few for his close neighbor and his son’s. He never owned one himself, as he had several Savage 99’s in the famous .300 caliber that we all learned on and put plenty of Venison in the freezer, over the years with. My good friend has one that he’s used for a very long time hunting Deer with and the pin fell out in the two piece handle, and he brought it by for a look see, and my recommended repair, as he still had the small, pin that holds the two piece handle together. I had him leave it with me and after further inspection, I found the hardened pin to have a little normal wear on it, after several years of use, and I was able to re secure the pin without any trouble and the aid of some light duty sleeve pin retainer, that we’ve been using for years, with tremendous success! Great rifles as I’ve never owned one or ever shot one either, but several friends like them. Smile

 

Anthony

Avatar
The Great State
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 709
Member Since:
April 30, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
January 23, 2025 - 4:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Anthony said
My father in law loved the model 88 and when he was hot and heavy with his FFL, he bought a few for his close neighbor and his son’s. He never owned one himself, as he had several Savage 99’s in the famous .33 caliber that we all learned on and put plenty of Venison in the freezer, over the years with. My good friend has one that he’s used for a very long time hunting Deer with and the pin fell out in the two piece handle, and he brought it by for a look see, and my recommended repair, as he still had the small, pin that holds the two piece handle together. I had him leave it with me and after further inspection, I found the hardened pin to have a little normal wear on it, after several years of use, and I was able to re secure the pin without any trouble and the aid of some light duty sleeve pin retainer, that we’ve been using for years, with tremendous success! Great rifles as I’ve never owned one or ever shot one either, but several friends like them. Smile

 

Anthony

  

Is that the infamous pin everyone dreads when reassembling? I see a lot of replacements being talked about using appropriate sized drill rod, etc.

Avatar
Texas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 734
Member Since:
January 20, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
January 23, 2025 - 4:58 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

That rotating bolt-head is right out of Marsh Williams’ design portfolio. I’m. not sure whose idea the rack-and-pinion lever design was but it certainly made for a very smooth, short throw action.  

The trigger issue, I’ve read, was a design fault hard to cure without replacing the entire unit and no replacement was commercially available. The trigger return spring was tasked with also performing an unrelated function, was the problem.  Some years ago, Craig Boddington had an 88 rebuilt and rebarreled to .358 by one of the better known custom makers, who installed a substantially modified trigger unit that solved the problem.  I want to say it was Curt Gowdy but not sure. I’d guess Boddington got a significant discount on the fee for that rebuilt trigger, which would be priced well above what Elmer Keith’s “Little Willy” or I could afford to pay. 

For the record, I’m an admirer of Marsh Williams’ designs, starting with the M1 carbine action and including the short recoil action of the Model.50/59. They are elegant, from an engineering standpoint, as well as robust and reliable. I think a better dove and quail gun than the Model 59 was never made.

 My son has had my 98% Model 59 for some years now, with its complete set of original choke tubes, wrench, and a spare MOD barrel. The only reason I don’t grieve its loss is he’s made such great good use of it. 

- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12199
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
January 23, 2025 - 6:36 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Jeremy P said
 

I’ll Have to pay closer attention now that there’s a Bert H. and a Burt H. 🙂

  

That should be easy to do… I am the one that looks like Santa ClausLaughLaugh

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12199
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
January 23, 2025 - 6:47 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Zebulon said
 

I think a better dove and quail gun than the Model 59 was never made.

  

Hmmm… I believe that my 1962 production Browning Auto-5 Light Twenty would have something to say about that!  The high-wall is one of the very uncommon 20-ga Single Shots.

Browning-Shotguns-007.jpegImage EnlargerWinchester-Browning-Shotguns-008.jpegImage Enlarger

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 751
Member Since:
September 19, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
January 23, 2025 - 7:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert and Zeb,  I was brought up on Browning A-5s (tho in 12 ga as we mostly chased ducks).  The 20 ga version seemed to jump up on its own.  So I unfortunately once again have to agree whole heartedly with Bert!  Tim

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12199
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
January 23, 2025 - 8:15 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

tim tomlinson said
Bert and Zeb,  I was brought up on Browning A-5s (tho in 12 ga as we mostly chased ducks).  The 20 ga version seemed to jump up on its own.  So I unfortunately once again have to agree whole heartedly with Bert!  Tim

  

My Light Twenty has the 26.5″ matted barrel with a ** choke (Modified).  I did not hunt with it much (mostly Grouse), but shot a fair number of clay pigeons with it.

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 480
Member Since:
December 9, 2002
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
14
January 23, 2025 - 8:36 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Jeremy P said

Anthony said

My father in law loved the model 88 and when he was hot and heavy with his FFL, he bought a few for his close neighbor and his son’s. He never owned one himself, as he had several Savage 99’s in the famous .33 caliber that we all learned on and put plenty of Venison in the freezer, over the years with. My good friend has one that he’s used for a very long time hunting Deer with and the pin fell out in the two piece handle, and he brought it by for a look see, and my recommended repair, as he still had the small, pin that holds the two piece handle together. I had him leave it with me and after further inspection, I found the hardened pin to have a little normal wear on it, after several years of use, and I was able to re secure the pin without any trouble and the aid of some light duty sleeve pin retainer, that we’ve been using for years, with tremendous success! Great rifles as I’ve never owned one or ever shot one either, but several friends like them. Smile

 

Anthony

  

Is that the infamous pin everyone dreads when reassembling? I see a lot of replacements being talked about using appropriate sized drill rod, etc.

  

Jeremy,

I’m thinking that you are correct. My friend hasn’t had any more issues with his as my FIL, taught me a few tricks while we spent time together.

Anthony

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1813
Member Since:
May 23, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
January 23, 2025 - 9:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

One detail about the Model 88 I’ve found somewhat funny and fascinating was that one in .308 was used by Milo Hanson to kill the World Record Typical Whitetail.

Avatar
Oregon
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 513
Member Since:
September 29, 1993
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
January 23, 2025 - 11:50 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Well, since this thread discusses two of the guns that I was raised on, I’ll have to express my 2 cents worth.

  • While in high school (1958 I believe) I traded in my trusty ’94 carbine on a very early, 4 digit serial number, Model 88 rifle in .308 caliber.  The trigger pull was atrocious and as was previously stated, unable to be modified.  While hunting in Northern California in the 1960’s, I had a very nice three-point blacktail trot by me at maybe 35 – 40 yards distance. I smoothly pulled up on him fhr carefuuly paced heart shot and when I pulled the trigger, it went “click”.  Jacked another shell into the chamber and squeezed off again with the same results.  Turned out I had a broken firing pin.  Took it to my gunsmith and had a new firing pin fitted and stuck it in the back of the safe as I had lost confidence in the rifle.  On a subsequent Colorado trip some years later, I took the M-88 as a back-up.  My Dad decided to give it a try and on opening day, pulled down on an acceptable four-point muley and once again, the rifle mis-fired with a broken firing pin.  Needless to say, once a new firing pin was fitted, it was sold for a very reasonable price at Cody.
  • As to the Browning Auto 5 Lightweight twenty gauge – when I first heard that it was available special order, with a left-hand safety also in 1958 as I recall, (although I am right-handed, I shoot left-handed) I had to upgrade from my Winchester Model 42 .410.  This one is still in my gun safe and has performed admirably over the last 67 years on both up-land game as well as waterfowl.  Lovely, well-balanced piece! 

WACA Life Benefactor Member

NRA Life Member

Avatar
Texas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 734
Member Since:
January 20, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
January 24, 2025 - 12:37 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said

Zebulon said

 

I think a better dove and quail gun than the Model 59 was never made.

  

Hmmm… I believe that my 1962 production Browning Auto-5 Light Twenty would have something to say about that!  The high-wall is one of the very uncommon 20-ga Single Shots.

Browning-Shotguns-007.jpegImage EnlargerWinchester-Browning-Shotguns-008.jpegImage Enlarger

  

Bert H. said

tim tomlinson said

Bert and Zeb,  I was brought up on Browning A-5s (tho in 12 ga as we mostly chased ducks).  The 20 ga version seemed to jump up on its own.  So I unfortunately once again have to agree whole heartedly with Bert!  Tim

  

My Light Twenty has the 26.5″ matted barrel with a ** choke (Modified).  I did not hunt with it much (mostly Grouse), but shot a fair number of clay pigeons with it.

  

You’ve got the right barrel for weight and balance for a Light Twenty.  And a rather tight modified choke that makes it good dove gun.  I took a barely used Miroku-built, square knob Light Twenty for a fee once, metric “28” plain * choked barrel. I had Pockrus polish the choke to IC and install a Sorbothane pad for young son, and it too now resides in the PNW.  

I’m very fond of the Auto-Five and have a near-new, uncut, 1955 Light Twelve with interesting provenance. Original barrel is — you guessed it — “28” plain full choke. Horn buttplate, machine blue receiver, flat top checkering.  

I was so tickled with the gun I found a brand new “26” vent rib Miroku-made choke tube barrel for it, although it cost me more than half the price I paid for the gun itself.  It will now shoot steel, although I was never a duck hunter

But its too heavy at close to 8 pounds. It didn’t seem so when I was in my Fifties…

- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

Avatar
The Great State
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 709
Member Since:
April 30, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
January 24, 2025 - 1:56 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Zeb, I’ve been looking for a similar A5 to complete my “Winchester’s Journey into Semi-Auto Shotguns” collection. I’d like a nice A5 to show as the example for where Winchester started and what they had to try and copy. I’m not looking for a vintage one though, I’ve been watching out for a nice post-war 1940s or 50s Belgium-made one. Keep a Texas eye out for me!

Avatar
Texas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 734
Member Since:
January 20, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
January 24, 2025 - 2:06 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Jeremy P said
Zeb, I’ve been looking for a similar A5 to complete my “Winchester’s Journey into Semi-Auto Shotguns” collection. I’d like a nice A5 to show as the example for where Winchester started and what they had to try and copy. I’m not looking for a vintage one though, I’ve been watching out for a nice post-war 1940s or 50s Belgium-made one. Keep a Texas eye out for me!

  

When you get back in town, come have some coffee. 

- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

Avatar
Ohio
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 69
Member Since:
August 8, 2024
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
January 24, 2025 - 3:10 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Maverick, I thought that Milo used a Model 100 in .308 on his record deer.  

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Online: gobblerforge, Anthony, Steven Gabrielli
Guest(s) 120
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 7119
TXGunNut: 5929
Chuck: 5348
steve004: 4874
1873man: 4568
Big Larry: 2475
twobit: 2417
mrcvs: 2055
TR: 1838
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 18
Topics: 14060
Posts: 124367

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1977
Members: 9595
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation