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Model 64 Carbine swivels
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February 20, 2018 - 4:33 pm
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I recently saw a 1930’s era model 64 carbine with a tube magazine clamp style front swivel.  Could this be factory installed or is that impossible?  It looks like it is as old as the rifle (based on blue wear).  

How rare is a 32 spl. in the carbines?

I would greatly appreciate any information.

Thank you,

Fielding

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February 20, 2018 - 4:59 pm
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FLT said
I recently saw a 1930’s era model 64 carbine with a tube magazine clamp style front swivel.  Could this be factory installed or is that impossible?  It looks like it is as old as the rifle (based on blue wear).  

How rare is a 32 spl. in the carbines?

I would greatly appreciate any information.

Thank you,

Fielding  

The front swivel from the factory is mounted on the forend cap, or whatever it is called. Very little interest in the 32 spl. It is the least liked of the lot. How about some pictures? Is it a plain carbine, or checkered deluxe? A carbine typically is worth more than a standard rifle, but condition is everything. Big Larry

M64.JPGImage Enlarger

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February 20, 2018 - 5:39 pm
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Thank you for the information.  I do not have a photo but I have only seen 64’s with the swivels on the forearm cap.  The gun is standard, not deluxe, and in very good condition.  Of course an added swivel up front means a hole drilled in the stock.  The 32 spl. looks good ballisticly but maybe they are difficult to shoot a good group.  I am looking for a collector grade gun to use as a backup in a deer blind with my son.  He’s shooting an old model 70.  I think this rifle could be purchased for around $1,500 to $1,800.  I think that is more like a Deluxe price but it is 1930’s and in very good shape.

Fielding

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February 20, 2018 - 6:48 pm
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 With what you say by  calling it a tube magazine clamp.I would say it was not a factory item.No factory installed, tube clamps I am aware of at this time, on the Model 64.

 

 Just wanted to add in this edit.that I am probably one of the few who enjoys the .32 Winchester  Special in the Model 64 as much or more, than the .30WCF.I have a deluxe and standard rifle Model 64  in  .32 Winchester Special and I find both shoot very well,for there intended purpose.Smile

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February 20, 2018 - 7:20 pm
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I suspected that it was not a factory part.  That asks the question, what does a hole in the stock do to the collectors value of the rifle.  

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February 20, 2018 - 8:07 pm
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The standard (uncheckered) model 64 will not have sling swivels unless special ordered from the factory. In that case, the swivels would be that of a supergrade or deluxe style where the buttstock swivel will be inletted into the stock and look like a yoke. The front sling swivel mount will be an integral part of the forend cap, not on the mag tube.

That said, a 64 carbine is desirable and worth a large premium over a 64 with rifle length barrel. Im also of the belief that there were much fewer standard (uncheckered) carbines produced than deluxe carbines.

This is is what a standard carbine should look like (as far as the lack of sling swivels are concerned):
http://i.imgur.com/PWOoOvG.jpgImage Enlarger

These are what factory 64 sling swivel mounts look like-
front:

 

http://i.imgur.com/eUPRNzF.jpgImage Enlarger

rear:
http://i.imgur.com/WvITcQ0.jpgImage Enlarger

If the gun you mentioned is in excellent original condition (aside from the sling swivels) I think $1500 is a reasonable price.
Of course, less would always be better.

I imagine Bert will be along to straiten the details out.

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February 20, 2018 - 8:41 pm
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Very nice carbine. A few days ago I made a trade on my S&S K22 Outdoorsman. I had my choice of a M71 Deluxe or a M64 carbine with a M56 rear sight, but in 32 Special. Had a beautiful stock too, I might add. No brainer. I chose the M71 Deluxe 1st model from 1937. A “long tang” if you will. No swivels, as many others, but a good friend and Samaritan sent me a set. For zip, nada, free. I won’t mention his name, but he is a frequent poster on this Forum. I was very happy with the trade as I have wanted a M71 for some time. I had to make a decision to stop buying S&W’s and get back to my lever gun collection.

Mr. 28 gauge is quite right about the 32 Special. I have a couple in my collection, but would have preferred one of the other calibers. Big Larry

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February 20, 2018 - 10:56 pm
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The clamp on style swivel mount is definitely an aftermarket item.

The plain (standard) 20-inch barreled Model 64 (carbine) is more common than the 20-inch Deer Rifle (carbine).  Thus far, I have surveyed (210) versus (126), for a total of (336) 20-inch Model 64s.  The 32 Win Spl accounts for 25% of the 20-inch (carbine) production.

 

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February 21, 2018 - 2:57 pm
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Just wanted to add in this edit.that I am probably one of the few who enjoys the .32 Winchester  Special in the Model 64 as much or more, than the .30WCF.I have a deluxe and standard rifle Model 64  in  .32 Winchester Special and I find both shoot very well,for there intended purpose.Smile

 

Not to highjack the thread, but I too chose the .32 Win over the .30-30 – just recently on the M94 Carbine. Though probably lessor resale (?), I like the obscure calibers. Everybody and their uncle has a 30-30. Guys at my gun club are intrigued when I show up with the .32!! 

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February 21, 2018 - 4:11 pm
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Big Larry said
Very nice carbine. A few days ago I made a trade on my S&S K22 Outdoorsman. I had my choice of a M71 Deluxe or a M64 carbine with a M56 rear sight, but in 32 Special. Had a beautiful stock too, I might add. No brainer. I chose the M71 Deluxe 1st model from 1937. 

I must say with a hint of jealousy – nice work Larry! 🙂

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February 21, 2018 - 4:19 pm
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Joel Goodrich said

Big Larry said
Very nice carbine. A few days ago I made a trade on my S&S K22 Outdoorsman. I had my choice of a M71 Deluxe or a M64 carbine with a M56 rear sight, but in 32 Special. Had a beautiful stock too, I might add. No brainer. I chose the M71 Deluxe 1st model from 1937. 

I must say with a hint of jealousy – nice work Larry! 🙂  

Thanks Joel. Ammo is a bit hard to find, but I have no intention of shooting it anyway. My EX BIL made up some ammo for my buddy who I traded the rifle to and I passed on shooting it. I think he may have gotten off a few rds. I don’t enjoy the heavy recoil of some rifles and the M71 is quite a kicker off the bench. I just plan to buy a box of 1935 period Winchester ammo for my ammo collection. Bear boxes are quite common, but a bit too late. Big Larry

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February 21, 2018 - 4:31 pm
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foxfire said
Just wanted to add in this edit.that I am probably one of the few who enjoys the .32 Winchester  Special in the Model 64 as much or more, than the .30WCF.I have a deluxe and standard rifle Model 64  in  .32 Winchester Special and I find both shoot very well,for there intended purpose.Smile
 
 
Not to highjack the thread, but I too chose the .32 Win over the .30-30 – just recently on the M94 Carbine. Though probably lessor resale (?), I like the obscure calibers. Everybody and their uncle has a 30-30. Guys at my gun club are intrigued when I show up with the .32!!   

Do I have the serial numbers and configurations of your 32 Winchester Specials for the research survey?

Currently (from the information in my research survey), 23% of all Pre-1964 production Model 1894/94 rifles & carbines were made in 32 Winchester Special, for an extrapolated total of 580,053.  For the Model 55, my survey shows that 22.8% of the total were in 32 WS (estimated total of 4,700), and for the Model 64, the survey shows 26% were 32 WS (estimated total of 17,325).  When it is all added up, just over 602,000 were made in 32 WS.

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February 21, 2018 - 5:50 pm
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Here ‘ya go Bert, Model 94 in .32 Win Spl: #1861774! Let me know if you have. 1951, I believe.

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February 21, 2018 - 6:29 pm
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foxfire said
Here ‘ya go Bert, Model 94 in .32 Win Spl: #1861774! Let me know if you have. 1951, I believe.  

1952, and it is a new number for the survey.  How about those Model 64s you have?

Thanks,

Bert

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February 21, 2018 - 6:39 pm
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How about those Model 64s you have?

 

I have none.

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February 21, 2018 - 7:32 pm
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Hesitate to further sidetrack this thread but I probably have almost as many 32WS 94’s as I do 30WCF. I shoot mostly cast bullets and the slower twist of the 32WS stabilizes the cast bullets better-at least in theory. I haven’t noticed any measureable difference. Ammunition is available but last I checked it cost more than the much more popular 30WCF. I think Hornady and Remington still make it. Brass availability is not an issue, costs the same as 30WCF. Can be made from 30WCF if necessary.

 

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February 21, 2018 - 8:18 pm
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Maybe this is a reworked rifle selling as original but why would the two pins I have circled  look to be polished smooth to the receiver?  Is that a product of rebluing? 

What is a deer rifle apposed to a standard?

 

model-64-carbine-1.jpgImage Enlarger

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February 21, 2018 - 8:45 pm
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FLT said
Maybe this is a reworked rifle selling as original but why would the two pins I have circled  look to be polished smooth to the receiver?  Is that a product of rebluing? 

What is a deer rifle apposed to a standard?

 

model-64-carbine-1.jpgImage Enlarger  

The “pins” you circled are actually screws.  What you are seeing is the bitter ends of the screws, as they are installed from the inside of the receiver.  They were not originally flat, and they got that way because a lazy or amateur gun smith buffed & polished the receiver with them in place vice taking the gun completely apart before he refinished it.  It most certainly is not “original” in that condition.

If you go to this link (here on the WACA website), it shows a standard Model 64 rifle (top picture) and a Model 64 Deer Rifle (bottom picture) – https://winchestercollector.org/models/model-64/

Note that the Deer Rifle has checkered stocks, a capped pistol grip, and QD sling swivels. 

If you go to this link and scroll down to the Winter 2013 magazine, you can read the complete article that I wrote about the Model 64 – https://winchestercollector.org/magazine/

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December 22, 2021 - 12:51 pm
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Can Bert or anyone advise if this sling swivel mount looks factory for a m64 deer rifle?

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December 22, 2021 - 6:35 pm
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Definitely not. See post #6 above that shows what they should look like on the fore-end cap. 

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