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Model 1885 High Wall
January 16, 2021
10:38 pm
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Greetings,

 

First off, thank you everyone that helped with my previous post. The guidance I received was exceptional.

I have a humble collection of antique Winchesters. My collection is similar to the toys on misfit island. There is something just not right and nobody wants them. I do this because I don't have enough disposable income for the very desirable specimens. But my misfits do make me very happy. 

I want to add a model 1885 high wall. I've been looking but these seem to be much higher priced than other Winchester rifles of the same vintage. Right now I have about a $2000 budget and I just can't find anything. I'm going to start saving up to increase my budget at about $100 per month. I do want a rifle in a caliber that I can find brass and supplies because I do like to fire them occasionally. What would be a sufficient budget for an entry level 1885 high wall? 

 

Best Regards,

 

Mike

January 16, 2021
10:49 pm
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Michael, the best bet is to buy a Winder musket.  It is a 22 short rimfire.  Nice ones can be bought for under $2500.  Other 1885's in different calibers can be found for under $3500 but ammo is hard to find.

January 16, 2021
11:14 pm
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Chuck said
Michael, the best bet is to buy a Winder musket.  It is a 22 short rimfire.  Nice ones can be bought for under $2500.  Other 1885's in different calibers can be found for under $3500 but ammo is hard to find.  

I will point out that 90% of the high-wall Winder Muskets were made in 22 Long Rifle.  

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January 17, 2021
12:07 am
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Well, look at this:   https://www.gunbroker.com/item/888713507

Decent shape, excellent cartridge WITH brass & dies!  (Jamison cases are the best available.)  I'll be very surprised if it sells for more than $2000.  Few yrs ago, I'd have been very interested myself, but my attention has shifted elsewhere now.

And here's one for Bert:  https://www.gunbroker.com/item/889770750

January 17, 2021
12:15 am
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Chuck said
Michael, the best bet is to buy a Winder musket.  It is a 22 short rimfire.  Nice ones can be bought for under $2500.

Way under, I'll bet:  https://www.gunbroker.com/item/888718707

This is the model Winder (the so-called M. 87) that's the best value. 

January 17, 2021
12:48 am
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clarence said
Well, look at this:   https://www.gunbroker.com/item/888713507

Decent shape, excellent cartridge WITH brass & dies!  (Jamison cases are the best available.)  I'll be very surprised if it sells for more than $2000.  Few yrs ago, I'd have been very interested myself, but my attention has shifted elsewhere now.

And here's one for Bert:  https://www.gunbroker.com/item/889770750  

The Griffin & Howe rifle is nice... but way overpriced!

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January 17, 2021
1:45 am
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Bert H. said

The Griffin & Howe rifle is nice... but way overpriced!  

No doubt--but the Huey case alone cost a grand I'm sure.  That incorrect tang sight looks stupid.

January 17, 2021
6:08 am
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clarence said

Bert H. said

The Griffin & Howe rifle is nice... but way overpriced!  

No doubt--but the Huey case alone cost a grand I'm sure.  That incorrect tang sight looks stupid.  

That 25-20SS looks like a lot more interesting rifle, from what I could see. 

Back to the OP it’s hard to imagine more bang for the buck than a Winder Musket.

 

Mike

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January 17, 2021
2:44 pm
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TXGunNut said

That 25-20SS looks like a lot more interesting rifle, from what I could see. 

It is--the cases & dies are worth at least $200, plus the time saved (many months, probably!) in scrounging for them yourself.  Think it takes about a yr for CH to make up dies for such obsolete calibers.

January 17, 2021
5:26 pm
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Bert H. said

I will point out that 90% of the high-wall Winder Muskets were made in 22 Long Rifle.    

That would be even nicer to have.  Mine is 22 short.  I looked back and found that I paid just under $1,100 for mine in 2017.  A 22 LR might be a little more.

Michael, the original poster, stated that he wanted something that was easy to find ammo.  Right now that is a problem for most calibers.  Brass, loading dies and primers are all in short supply.

January 17, 2021
6:05 pm
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Chuck said

  Brass, loading dies and primers are all in short supply.  

True, but not more so that .22RF, which is at the bottom of the US ammo-makers priority list.  What's at the top?  Supplying ammo to agencies of the US gov't (Homeland Security, to name the most worthless of them) & police agencies; anything left over will be doled out to the commercial market.  Cops who train at my range sure aren't scrimping--an average day's shoot is 3 or 4 thousand rounds.  (This is a rural dept whose greatest crime problem is an occasional meth lab found in some dope-head's garage.)

January 17, 2021
6:12 pm
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clarence said

True, but not more so that .22RF, which is at the bottom of the US ammo-makers priority list.  What's at the top?  Supplying ammo to agencies of the US gov't (Homeland Security, to name the most worthless of them) & police agencies; anything left over will be doled out to the commercial market.  Cops who train at my range sure aren't scrimping--an average day's shoot is 3 or 4 thousand rounds.  (This is a rural dept whose greatest crime problem is an occasional meth lab found in some dope-head's garage.)  

Sorry Clarence but 22 LR can be found for sale with one internet search.

January 17, 2021
8:05 pm
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Chuck said

Sorry Clarence but 22 LR can be found for sale with one internet search.  

Well, check out this page from Targetsports:  https://www.targetsportsusa.com/22-long-rifle-ammo-c-202.aspx

There may be a few selections available, but they are VASTLY outnumbered by the ones that say"notify," which means out of stock.  I've been on the "notify" list for over 6 months for the brand I prefer to buy, Aguila SV.  If possible, I want to buy from a foreign mfgr. who does not give priority to the US gov't.--no friend of gun-owners.  Every single Aguila selection is on the "notify" list.

I'm not desperate enough yet to buy from the internet price gougers.

January 18, 2021
12:10 am
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Clarence, the original poster wants something that is available.

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/rimfire-ammo#facet:&productBeginIndex:0&facetLimit:&orderBy:&pageView:grid&minPrice:&maxPrice:&pageSize:&

https://www.luckygunner.com/rimfire/22-lr-ammo

https://www.midwayusa.com/rimfire-ammunition/br?cid=7547

There are more but if he doesn't require some special ammo 22 LR is out there.  And the Winder musket is probably the cheapest 1885/87 out there.

January 18, 2021
1:29 am
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Chuck said
Clarence, the original poster wants something that is available.

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/rimfire-ammo#facet:&productBeginIndex:0&facetLimit:&orderBy:&pageView:grid&minPrice:&maxPrice:&pageSize:&

https://www.luckygunner.com/rimfire/22-lr-ammo

https://www.midwayusa.com/rimfire-ammunition/br?cid=7547

There are more but if he doesn't require some special ammo 22 LR is out there.  And the Winder musket is probably the cheapest 1885/87 out there.  

Just to confirm what I already knew, I checked every one of Midway's 157 different listings.  Out that 157, what was in stock?  ONE brand of match ammo priced at 50 cents a round, & even it said "mixed availability"!

Of course, someone like probably the OP who wants to plink a few rounds & doesn't care about the cost can find a few boxes for sale.  But like most serious RF shooters I buy by the case (5000 rds), & had been paying 4 cents / rd. from Targetsports. Price jumped to 8 cents, then 12, then out of stock, 6 mos ago.  5000 sounds like a lot but anybody shooting 50 to 100 rds an average of 5 days / wk knows it really isn't.

Meanwhile, US ammo makers are providing Homeland Security with 1.6 BILLION rounds (for what?), & WE go without.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/why-is-the-department-of-homeland-security-buying-so-many-bullets

January 18, 2021
1:35 am
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Just checked Lucky Gunner--one selection in stock at 34 cents / rd.  I can't pay that & keep up my regular practice.

January 18, 2021
2:48 pm
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Thanks all for your recommendations. I should of been more descriptive. I want a center fire rifle that I can readily find components to reload. I currently reload .357 mag, .44 mag, 30-06, .45 Colt, 45-70, 32-20, 38-40, and 44-40. So my top choices would be finding a high wall in one of the last three. But I will buy dies if I end up with a new cartridge. I am in no hurry and sometimes the hunt is the most fun part. I may be able to increase my budget as I'm pondering selling my beloved M1 Garand, 1903, and M1 Carbine. 

 

Just curious...anyone going to bid on this beauty?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/889335297

 

Best Regards,

 

Mike

January 18, 2021
3:04 pm
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luker@stny.rr.com said
Thanks all for your recommendations. I should of been more descriptive. I want a center fire rifle that I can readily find components to reload. I currently reload .357 mag, .44 mag, 30-06, .45 Colt, 45-70, 32-20, 38-40, and 44-40. So my top choices would be finding a high wall in one of the last three.

Not likely to find a HW in those 3, they were usually chambered in LWs.  (Actually, I have a HW .32-20, but that's not common.)  HWs in .45-70 are in high demand & priced accordingly.

Between that HW on GB & your Garand, I'd choose the latter, if it's substantially original, as few of them are.  Talking about owning & shooting, not resale value.

January 18, 2021
5:58 pm
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luker@stny.rr.com said
Thanks all for your recommendations. I should of been more descriptive. I want a center fire rifle that I can readily find components to reload. I currently reload .357 mag, .44 mag, 30-06, .45 Colt, 45-70, 32-20, 38-40, and 44-40. So my top choices would be finding a high wall in one of the last three. But I will buy dies if I end up with a new cartridge. I am in no hurry and sometimes the hunt is the most fun part. I may be able to increase my budget as I'm pondering selling my beloved M1 Garand, 1903, and M1 Carbine. 

 

Just curious...anyone going to bid on this beauty?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/889335297

 

Best Regards,

 

Mike  

If you have primers you will need dies and brass.  The 45-70 brass is probably the easiest to find right now.  Loading dies can be found for the last 4.  The last 3 are most common in the low walls like Clarence said.  I have seen highwalls in 44.  Highwalls usually run $3500 and up.  Check around and see what loading supplies you can find and then look for the guns.  If you aren't in a hurry find the gun first.  This is what I do but right now who knows when the loading materials will surface again.

Another option is to buy a 22 WCF.  These can be loaded by using the 22 Hornet brass, fire formed in the gun then using a 22 Savage high power decapping rod and expander in the hornet dies the necks can be expanded to .228". Seat the bullet with whatever you have to push the bullet in.  When reusing the brass only size the neck.

January 20, 2021
2:21 am
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I like the way you think, Mike. A nice Single Shot in 32, 38 or 44WCF would be pretty special in almost anyone’s collection but even better in yours as you already load for them. I load for the first two (Of those three) and someday when the stars line up and my pockets are a bit fuller I’d love to have one in 32WCF. It may take awhile longer as a nice High Wall in 32-40 distracted me from my quest but that’s part of the adventure. Just keep piling up those $100 bills and keep your eyes and ears open; your rifle will come along.

I’d love to own the 32-40 on GB but I’m not in a position to buy it. Frown

 

Mike

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