Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Mis-matched wood on this 1894 SRC?
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Troutdale, OR
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2223
Member Since:
June 26, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
May 6, 2021 - 4:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, the forearm looks like gumwood but the buttstock looks like walnut.  That’s evidence of a wood swap outside of the factory–am I correct?  Would be a very nice/desirable carbine in a great caliber otherwise.

https://wardscollectibles.com/viewitem.php?item=4048

Don

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 11698
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
May 6, 2021 - 4:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Don,

Both stocks look like Gumwood to me.  The fit of the butt stock is factory work.

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Troutdale, OR
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2223
Member Since:
June 26, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
May 6, 2021 - 7:00 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Thanks Bert.  The buttstock has more figure/coarse grain than other gumwood stocks I’ve seen.  Most are pretty beat up as well.

Don

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2456
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
May 6, 2021 - 9:51 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

deerhunter said
Thanks Bert.  The buttstock has more figure/coarse grain than other gumwood stocks I’ve seen.  Most are pretty beat up as well.

Don  

That carbine would look good in my safe along with my 38-55 SRC with Gumwood stocks. Big Larry

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5065
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
May 7, 2021 - 5:14 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Was the wood on standard guns cut from the same piece of wood like the special order stocks?

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 11698
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
May 7, 2021 - 6:32 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Chuck said
Was the wood on standard guns cut from the same piece of wood like the special order stocks?  

I don not believe that your question can be answered with any certainty, but if I had to choose between “yes” or “no”, I would say that most of the time it was “yes”.

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4715
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
May 8, 2021 - 3:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The stocks on this carbine look matching to me.  On the general topic, it seems on 94 carbines,  I’ve seen examples where the stocks have been mismatched at the factory (e.g. walnut buttstock, gumwood forend).  I have the vague memory of seeing this documented somewhere.  

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 11698
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
May 8, 2021 - 5:26 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

steve004 said
The stocks on this carbine look matching to me.  On the general topic, it seems on 94 carbines,  I’ve seen examples where the stocks have been mismatched at the factory (e.g. walnut buttstock, gumwood forend).  I have the vague memory of seeing this documented somewhere.    

Steve,

Winchester did not mis-match the stocks on any model.  If you find a Model 1894 Carbine with a Walnut & Gumwood combination of stocks, somebody (other than Winchester) swapped one of the stocks.  I suspect that any written documentation to the contrary was somebody trying to explain away mis-matched wood on a gun they were trying to sell.

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4715
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
May 8, 2021 - 7:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said

Steve,

Winchester did not mis-match the stocks on any model.  If you find a Model 1894 Carbine with a Walnut & Gumwood combination of stocks, somebody (other than Winchester) swapped one of the stocks.  I suspect that any written documentation to the contrary was somebody trying to explain away mis-matched wood on a gun they were trying to sell.  

This has gnawed at me today.  I ended up finding the reference I was thinking of.  On page 115 of Madis’ The Winchester Handbook, he shows a M1892 SRC #154317.  He states, “Some carbines in the 1892 and 1894 have stocks and forends of gumwood, in an attempt to reduce weight and costs.  This carbine, as found with a few others, has a gumwood stock and a walnut forend.  Mixed woods will be seen on a few other 92 and 94 carbines.”

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1979
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
May 8, 2021 - 10:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Not all references and authorities are correct.

I would find it hard to believe that a Winchester would have a combination of stocks and forearms being walnut and gumwood unless after market modified.

Avatar
South Texas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1060
Member Since:
March 20, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
May 9, 2021 - 12:00 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

mrcvs said
Not all references and authorities are correct.

You’ve got that right on a number of fronts, everyone is fallible.  Is mixed wood a possibility, why not, but maybe not that likely.  The time honored lesson when it comes to Winchester is to “never say never”. 

DSC_0245-Copy-3.JPG

1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member

"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4715
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
May 9, 2021 - 12:48 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

1892takedown said

mrcvs said
Not all references and authorities are correct.

You’ve got that right on a number of fronts, everyone is fallible.  Is mixed wood a possibility, why not, but maybe not that likely.  The time honored lesson when it comes to Winchester is to “never say never”.   

There was a huge number of 1892/92 and 1894/94 made by Winchester back in the day – the claim was a small number were sent out this way.  

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 11698
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
May 9, 2021 - 2:06 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Again, any Model 1892 or 1894 Carbine with mis-matched wood should be considered an aftermarket altered gun. Next to swapped (upgraded) sights, swapped stocks are the next most common event to encounter. I have surveyed several thousand Model 1894 SRCs with gumwood stocks, and not a single one with mixed wood that looked like it was factory original.

In regards to the Model 1892 with S/N 154317, it should have Walnut stocks based on its date of manufacture (in the year 1900). Winchester did not begin using Gumwood until 1906.

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4715
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
May 9, 2021 - 2:09 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said
Again, any Model 1892 or 1894 Carbine with mis-matched wood should be considered an aftermarket altered gun. Next to swapped (upgraded) sights, swapped stocks are the next most common event to encounter. I have surveyed several thousand Model 1894 SRCs with gumwood stocks, and not a single one with mixed wood that looked like it was factory original.
In regards to the Model 1892 with S/N 154317, it should have Walnut stocks based on its date of manufacture (in the year 1900). Winchester did not begin using Gumwood until 1906.  

Bert – I can’t disagree with your conclusion.  

Avatar
Aylmer, Quebec, Canada
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 337
Member Since:
March 23, 2007
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
May 10, 2021 - 12:03 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

That’s a good looking carbine.

Matt

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4715
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
May 10, 2021 - 12:09 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Matt74 said
That’s a good looking carbine.

Matt  

Particularly appealing given it is a .38-55.

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 482
Member Since:
March 21, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
May 10, 2021 - 12:18 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The stock and forearm wood looks fine to me, I’d be more concerned about the barrel and mag blueing. Doesn’t look 95% and 90% to me from the photos. 

But then Ward’s photos typically leave a lot to be desired. 

IMG_0805-Copy-Copy-Copy.JPG

Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5065
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
May 10, 2021 - 12:55 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said

I don not believe that your question can be answered with any certainty, but if I had to choose between “yes” or “no”, I would say that most of the time it was “yes”.  

I believe that the wood was hand selected and not necessarily from the same piece of wood.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5065
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
May 10, 2021 - 12:57 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Kevin Jones said
The stock and forearm wood looks fine to me, I’d be more concerned about the barrel and mag blueing. Doesn’t look 95% and 90% to me from the photos. 

But then Ward’s photos typically leave a lot to be desired.   

I don’t like percentages.  Each have their own opinions.  This is a lightly used gun and I think their estimate is a little high for a non antique.

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 128
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 7119
TXGunNut: 5639
Chuck: 5065
steve004: 4715
1873man: 4500
Big Larry: 2456
twobit: 2359
mrcvs: 1979
TR: 1799
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 18
Topics: 13586
Posts: 119974

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1914
Members: 9330
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation