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Have a chance to acquire a really nice Model 1894. The seller asserts that he can ship via USPS directly to my castle as the DOM is 1898 (Madis). I checked the SN on WACA and it turns out to be a 1902 DOM. What are the possible repercussions, if any, if it is shipped directly to me, especially if something goes wrong in transit? Should I argue the point with the seller and have it shipped to my FFL dealer?
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
If the guy will ship to you, go for it. It would be the shipper that would get in trouble if there is a problem.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I do not agree with Bob, and neither will any federal law enforcement agency (shipment across state lines makes it a federal crime). Inform the seller to ship it to your FFL, or not at all.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert, my gut feeling from the start has been with your stated opinion. Additionally, we are looking at a collectible that will approach 5 figures so the transfer fee is insignificant. Also, by shipping to FFL the apprehension about something going wrong is greatly reduced.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=466708322
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Some else posted here several weeks ago that BATF used Polishing Room dates??????????
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
wallyb said
Hi
The BATF uses Madis dates.
Walter
No, they do not! If you have any doubts, contact them and ask.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Wincacher said
Some else posted here several weeks ago that BATF used Polishing Room dates??????????
They do…
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
wallyb said
Hi
I thought BATF did not want to change to the (CRM) records.
Walter
The BATF can not change existing historical records. If there is any question about when a Winchester was manufactured, the BATF uses the information provided to them by the CFM research office. I also know that they have a list with the actual antique serial number cutoffs for each model that qualifies.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
As I get older and realize the ramifications and the amount of risk that I may and may not want to take, my opinion on this subject has changed. I own a company and work with government regulators on a weekly basis. I have had them verbally inform me of what I can do and after having completed what they want done, another agency will send a letter stating the letter of the law and a total different ruling than the verbal one.
My gun collection has grown with the years, I enjoy my freedom to have and purchase firearms at my leisure. The ATF may never realize that you have shipped a firearm that may not be in compliance with current regulations. The Government has the power to take all of your freedoms and treasure away from you at there whim if they believe you have violated a regulation. If it is worth the risk to have a firearm shipped to you to save $ 30.00, feel free to save your money.
All of your internet purchased guns are tracked, just because they do not go through an FFL, there is a data base that lists who purchased every firearm that has been purchased on every site. One day that information may be used against you.
I have a friend that made a pipe bomb in high school, 20 years later it was dropped and went off in his garage. During the investigation they found a shotgun that his grandfather had sawed off 40 years before. He is now a felon for the sawed off shotgun, no jail time but lost his teaching license, can not own firearms, and spent $ 12,000 in legal fees.
If questionable and you own valuable assets, being on the safe side may be your best judgement.
That is sage advice, floyd58523. If you looked at the link I posted, the Cody letter is displayed and it says that the DOM is 1902. The seller has over 200 feedbacks on Gunbroker so he must be a dealer, at least to some extent. Why take a chance?
For what it’s worth, I have the original receipt for EVERY gun purchase I’ve ever made, going back over 40 years, just in case. I started acquiring old Winchesters shortly after the GCA of 1968 and the mood at the time was slightly paranoic.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
The ATF has released their Federal Firearms Regulation Reference Guide updated for 2014 it covers the Antique Firearm definition check it out
for yourself
Does it say what serial numbers they use for antique?
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I use this list. I got it a long time ago from a post Bert made on Gunbroker.
The below listing are the serial numbers the BATF uses to determine “Antique” status;
Winchester Model 1866, all are pre-1899
Winchester Model 1873 (serial # below 525,923)
Winchester Model 1876, all are pre-1899
Winchester Model 1885 (serial # below 84,701)
Winchester Model 1886 (serial # below 119,193)
Winchester Model 1887 (all were produced before 1899).
Winchester Model 1890 (serial # below 64,521)
Winchester Model 1892 (serial # below 165,432)
Winchester Model 1893 (serial # below 34,204)
Winchester Model 1894 (serial # below 147,685)
Winchester Model 1895 (serial # below 19,872)
Winchester Model 1897 Shotgun (serial # below 63,633)
Winchester-Hotchkiss Bolt Action Rifles, all are pre-1899
Winchester-Lee (U.S. Navy) Straight-Pull 6 mm (serial # below 20,000)
I’ve seen this list in many locations all over the internet. It must be the Madis list which supposedly is invalid.
Take the Model 94 Winchester. According to Madis serial number 147,684 was made in 1898. According to Cody, that serial number was made in 1902. At this point I don’t really care when the damn thing was made, only when BATF THINKS it was made. After all, that’s the only number that matters. Do you have to fill out an FFL form for Model 94’s between serial numbers 53,941 and 147,684???? That’s one heck of a lot of weapons, nearly 100,000, that one can get in trouble over with the Feds, and that is with just ONE Winchester model.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
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