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How often do we see a checkered trigger that letters? What models? Here's an example -
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May 13, 2022 - 2:27 pm
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Coming up at Morphy’s – a .45-90 with a goodly number of special order features.  I like the configuration a lot.  It could be better in the finish department but the rifle has a lot going for it.  The matted barrel was of interest.  What drew me in the most was the checkered trigger – which is listed in the Cody letter.  I’ve never owned a Winchester with a checkered trigger and I can’t recall holding on in my hands?  What have other’s experience been with this?  And was it a cataloged, “extra”?  If so, how much?  I can’t recall seeing it listed as an special order option in a catalog.

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_A__WINCHESTER_MODEL_1886_DELUXE_SPECIAL_ORDER_LEV-LOT526947.aspx

 

Interesting that they describe it with a two-thirds magazine when it is clearly a half magazine, and the letter states it is half magazine.  

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May 14, 2022 - 11:14 pm
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You bidding ?

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May 14, 2022 - 11:32 pm
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oldcrankyyankee said
You bidding ?

  

That’s a good question.  I had not been thinking that way when I first posted the auction.  Generally, for a M1886 that is going to go for over $10,000, I would want more condition. But …. this one has so many special order features.  Plus I really like the configuration and chambering.  I strongly suspect the bidding will go well over $10,000.  Then, add in the juice, sales, tax, shipping and … we are talking over $13,000.  

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May 15, 2022 - 12:34 pm
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 I have have looked at it too, similar thoughts. Wish the juice wouldn’t push the $$$$.   

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May 15, 2022 - 10:01 pm
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What are the opinions of other members on this gun? 

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May 15, 2022 - 10:09 pm
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steve004 said
 

 

 

Interesting that they describe it with a two-thirds magazine when it is clearly a half magazine, and the letter states it is half magazine.  

  

Also listed in the write up as 1898 manufacture but letter is May 1899. Seems to have been back for R+R alot also.

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May 15, 2022 - 10:53 pm
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oldcrankyyankee said

steve004 said

 

 

 

Interesting that they describe it with a two-thirds magazine when it is clearly a half magazine, and the letter states it is half magazine.  

  

Also listed in the write up as 1898 manufacture but letter is May 1899. Seems to have been back for R+R alot also.

  

That does blast it out of antique status.  However, they list it as antique.  This frustrates me.  RIA will use the Madis numbers to determine antique status in the face of a museum letter that clearly specifies 1899.  Interestingly it makes the Madis cut-off by less than 30 digits (he lists 119192 as the end of 1898 manufacture).

 

So………………. checkered triggers – no one has any knowledge or information about them?

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May 16, 2022 - 1:56 am
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I have seen a very small number of Single Shot rifles that letter with a “checked” trigger.  It was a very rarely ordered special order feature.

Bert

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May 20, 2022 - 3:52 am
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Wish they had a better pic of the checking on the trigger.  I had a semi-deluxe (I checked) straight grip carbine in 32WS that had a checked trigger.  Unfortunately the carbine was outside the letterable range.

11-24-2009-141.JPGImage Enlarger

I was told by someone here the checking was not original and eventually sold it.  From what can be seen in the auction photos, it doesnt look much different.  If anyone has other lettered examples to post they would be interesting to see.

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May 20, 2022 - 11:45 am
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Bert H. said
I have seen a very small number of Single Shot rifles that letter with a “checked” trigger.  It was a very rarely ordered special order feature.

Bert

  

Bert – are you aware of any catalogs where was listed as a special order feature?

 

Mike – that looks like it was a very cool carbine!  And in a .32 Special!  I’m thinking the trigger on it was original.  Who knows, maybe whoever bought it changed the trigger out to make it, “right”  Cry

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May 21, 2022 - 4:10 am
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steve004 said

Bert H. said

I have seen a very small number of Single Shot rifles that letter with a “checked” trigger.  It was a very rarely ordered special order feature.

Bert

  

Bert – are you aware of any catalogs where was listed as a special order feature?

  

I am not sure if I have, but will take a look at the catalogs that I have on hand.

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May 21, 2022 - 4:56 pm
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The final price on the .45-90 under discussion was $10,455.  That included buyer’s premium but I don’t believe it would include sales tax.  That’s quite a bit more than I was willing to pay.  To me, this would have been a really outstanding piece if it had more condition.

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May 21, 2022 - 5:04 pm
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steve004 said
The final price on the .45-90 under discussion was $10,455.  That included buyer’s premium but I don’t believe it would include sales tax.  That’s quite a bit more than I was willing to pay.  To me, this would have been a really outstanding piece if it had more condition.

  

Steve,

I spent a few hours late last night digging through all of my Winchester catalogs from 1885 through 1909, and none of them specifically mention “checkered trigger”.  That stated, Winchester would do almost anything a customer wanted (for a price), and as I previously mentioned, I have seen at least (2) Single Shot rifles that letter with a “checked” trigger.  While I have not personally seen either of those rifles, I highly suspect that the triggers are actually knurled in the same pattern as the hammer spurs.

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May 21, 2022 - 11:49 pm
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Bert H. said

steve004 said

The final price on the .45-90 under discussion was $10,455.  That included buyer’s premium but I don’t believe it would include sales tax.  That’s quite a bit more than I was willing to pay.  To me, this would have been a really outstanding piece if it had more condition.

  

Steve,

I spent a few hours late last night digging through all of my Winchester catalogs from 1885 through 1909, and none of them specifically mention “checkered trigger”.  That stated, Winchester would do almost anything a customer wanted (for a price), and as I previously mentioned, I have seen at least (2) Single Shot rifles that letter with a “checked” trigger.  While I have not personally seen either of those rifles, I highly suspect that the triggers are actually knurled in the same pattern as the hammer spurs.

Bert

  

Thanks for looking Bert.   It confirms my suspicion – we almost never see these because it was not a cataloged option.  I remain intrigued over the .32 Special carbine Mike had – I’m thinking that trigger was done by the factory.  Too bad it was outside the letterable range.  This .45-90 is the only Winchester repeating rifle I am aware of that had a checkered trigger that would letter.  

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May 22, 2022 - 6:49 pm
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Bert H. said

While I have not personally seen either of those rifles, I highly suspect that the triggers are actually knurled in the same pattern as the hammer spurs.

In the 1886 example, the trigger is not knurled based on the checking you can see from the trigger profile in the auction photo.  Nor does it have a border.  Based on the dearth of checked triggers out there, I would expect them to be checked by hand instead of coming up with a machining process to handle such few occurrences.    

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May 22, 2022 - 11:59 pm
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steve004 said

Bert H. said

steve004 said

The final price on the .45-90 under discussion was $10,455.  That included buyer’s premium but I don’t believe it would include sales tax.  That’s quite a bit more than I was willing to pay.  To me, this would have been a really outstanding piece if it had more condition.

  

Steve,

I spent a few hours late last night digging through all of my Winchester catalogs from 1885 through 1909, and none of them specifically mention “checkered trigger”.  That stated, Winchester would do almost anything a customer wanted (for a price), and as I previously mentioned, I have seen at least (2) Single Shot rifles that letter with a “checked” trigger.  While I have not personally seen either of those rifles, I highly suspect that the triggers are actually knurled in the same pattern as the hammer spurs.

Bert

  

Thanks for looking Bert.   It confirms my suspicion – we almost never see these because it was not a cataloged option.  I remain intrigued over the .32 Special carbine Mike had – I’m thinking that trigger was done by the factory.  Too bad it was outside the letterable range.  This .45-90 is the only Winchester repeating rifle I am aware of that had a checkered trigger that would letter.  

  

Welll Ive been looking for a 45-90 take down and this one came along. Just so happened to have some extra features. gonna guess you wont find to many like it. My humble opinion is some times you have to give up condition for special features. 

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May 24, 2022 - 12:32 am
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1892takedown said

Bert H. said

While I have not personally seen either of those rifles, I highly suspect that the triggers are actually knurled in the same pattern as the hammer spurs.

In the 1886 example, the trigger is not knurled based on the checking you can see from the trigger profile in the auction photo.  Nor does it have a border.  Based on the dearth of checked triggers out there, I would expect them to be checked by hand instead of coming up with a machining process to handle such few occurrences.    

Chris

  

Chris I would agree with you about this checkered trigger. I am sure that it was hand cut, as was your .32 carbine. As a steel fabricator and machinist I studied the cuts on both triggers  and I can clearly see the deviation in the diamonds and spacing of the cuts. You see one of these and clearly someone wanted it that way.I think that who ever ordered this gun prided themselves as a”shooter”, as I know from experience a trigger with some sort of disrupted surface is more comfortable and allows a more consistent finger placement. Anyway, still want to hear more about it, btw , notice it has a matte barrel? Makes me think about my earlier statement about the owner being a “shooter”.

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May 25, 2022 - 2:29 pm
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1892takedown said

Bert H. said

While I have not personally seen either of those rifles, I highly suspect that the triggers are actually knurled in the same pattern as the hammer spurs.

In the 1886 example, the trigger is not knurled based on the checking you can see from the trigger profile in the auction photo.  Nor does it have a border.  Based on the dearth of checked triggers out there, I would expect them to be checked by hand instead of coming up with a machining process to handle such few occurrences.    

Chris

  

1894DieKnurl.jpgImage EnlargerReloadingToolKnurled.jpgImage EnlargerI disagree and find it completely plausible that the triggers could have been simply knurled and not hand engraved. They wouldn’t have to have a “Border” like the thumb portion on the hammer. Also with knurling you don’t always get complete uniform depth and patterns across the entire surface knurled. Look at the examples of the knurling on Winchester Reloading Tools I’ve provided. They are not exactly uniform in appearance across the entire surface. 

With knurling tools the factory could cut that pattern in seconds versus what an engraver would take at least several minutes to do. And you wouldn’t need to pay the skilled labor of an engraver, so like any business the less time and money spent, the larger the profits.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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May 26, 2022 - 10:41 pm
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Maverick said

1892takedown said

 

 

 

  

1894DieKnurl.jpgImage EnlargerReloadingToolKnurled.jpgImage EnlargerI disagree and find it completely plausible that the triggers could have been simply knurled and not hand engraved. They wouldn’t have to have a “Border” like the thumb portion on the hammer. Also with knurling you don’t always get complete uniform depth and patterns across the entire surface knurled. Look at the examples of the knurling on Winchester Reloading Tools I’ve provided. They are not exactly uniform in appearance across the entire surface. 

With knurling tools the factory could cut that pattern in seconds versus what an engraver would take at least several minutes to do. And you wouldn’t need to pay the skilled labor of an engraver, so like any business the less time and money spent, the larger the profits.

Sincerely,

Maverick

  

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May 26, 2022 - 10:56 pm
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I’m sorry to say Maverick but the 2 pieces you have shown are round, therefore very, very easy to knurl, as it would have been done on a lathe with a knurling tool. Which by the way is round. Actually it 2 round wheels ,so to speak, with serrations going opposite way on the oblique and forced with pressure to actually deform the metal to create the diamond pattern. To do this on a trigger this way would be near to impossible. You see the pressure to “press” the serrations into the metal would deform it so bad the time needed to reshape that one little trigger would be more costly than hand cutting it. Hope I haven’t offended you or anyone else. but like i said before I’ve been a machinist and metal fabricator  for  40 years. 

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