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High wall caliber
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JimLowe
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September 18, 2017 - 4:23 pm
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Has anyone heard of an 1885 high wall in 30 N.S. Caliber.

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September 18, 2017 - 7:29 pm
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No, but there were a fair number of them made in “30 U.S.” (aka 30/40 Krag).

Bert

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JimLowe
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September 18, 2017 - 8:10 pm
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This one is clearly marker 30 N.S.

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September 18, 2017 - 8:38 pm
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Jim,

It is not factory original. There is no such thing as a “30 N.S.” cartridge. The Model 1885 high-wall was available in the 30 U.S. and 30 W.C.F. cartridges, with far more of them made in the 30 U.S. My guess is that the rifle you are referring to will most likely chamber a 30/40 Krag cartridge.

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September 18, 2017 - 10:31 pm
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JimLowe said
This one is clearly marker 30 N.S.  

Got any pictures of the marking that you can share?

Sincerely,

Maverick

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October 4, 2017 - 8:57 am
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Must be 30 Cal Northern States.?

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October 8, 2017 - 5:28 pm
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Not that I’ve seen one in the flesh, but wasn’t there a target version of the highwall chambered in .30-06 (or .30-06 rimmed) with a special long target forearm (with a built-in wooden palm rest).  I seem to recall several years ago one of the big auction houses had a group of these for sale.

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October 8, 2017 - 5:36 pm
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Here’s an example of what I was referring to.  This one is a great example as there is a museum letter included.  I believe this one is in .30 rimmed caliber (which if I am reading correctly, is a rimmed version of the .30-06).  It’s too bad the photos don’t include the caliber marking stamp.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/57/1007/winchester-1885-rifle

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October 8, 2017 - 5:39 pm
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Here’s another very interesting (and historic) rifle.  This one is in .30/40 but the narrative references the vast majority of these target High Walls were chambered in .30-06 rimmed.  So… who has one?

https://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1413-extremely-rare-winchester-high-wall-high-power-takedown-single-shot-target-rifle-39518/

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October 8, 2017 - 7:20 pm
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The International Match rifles in both .30-06 rimmed & rimless are discussed in some detail in Campbell’s 2nd vol.  Believe he says that no example of one of the rimmed cases has yet been found.

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October 8, 2017 - 11:24 pm
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steve004 said
Not that I’ve seen one in the flesh, but wasn’t there a target version of the highwall chambered in .30-06 (or .30-06 rimmed) with a special long target forearm (with a built-in wooden palm rest).  I seem to recall several years ago one of the big auction houses had a group of these for sale.  

Steve,

They are referred to as “International Match Rifles”, and Winchester built a total of (27) of them for the August 1913 Camp Perry International Match competition.  When I conducted the 100% caliber survey of the Model 1885 records, I verified that all (27) of them were specially made for a 30-06 rimmed cartridge (as listed in the factory warehouse ledger records).  Winchester specially made the ammo for the match shooters.  Over the past 20-years, I have had my hands on (6) of the (27) rifles.  None of them (as Campbell implied) were made to shoot the standard 30-06 rimless cartridge.  The rifle sold by Julia’s was not a 30/40 Krag.  Winchester used standard 30-inch No. 3 round Nickel Steel barrels that were originally made for the 30 U.S. (30/40) cartridge, but reamed the chambers to accommodate the 30-06 Govt cartridge.  Each one of the rifles was also specially modified to include a hammer block safety, as the Camp Perry match required a functional safety.

The attached pictures show the chamber, the caliber marking, a 30-06 rimmed cartridge, and the factory letter for serial number 101832.

Breech-view-1.jpegImage EnlargerCaliber-stamp-1.jpegImage EnlargerCartridge-1.jpegImage EnlargerFactory-letter-101832-HW-IMR-1.jpegImage Enlarger

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October 8, 2017 - 11:28 pm
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clarence said
The International Match rifles in both .30-06 rimmed & rimless are discussed in some detail in Campbell’s 2nd vol.  Believe he says that no example of one of the rimmed cases has yet been found.  

Not true quite true… none of them were made in 30-06 rimless, and at least one 30-06 rimmed cartridge still exists (though they are very rare).

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October 9, 2017 - 12:56 am
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Bert H. said

Not true quite true… none of them were made in 30-06 rimless, and at least one 30-06 rimmed cartridge still exists (though they are very rare).

Bert  

Years ago (25+), Gary Quinlan showed me one of the International Matches he said had the special rimless extractor; he seemed very excited about it, though I confess I couldn’t muster a lot of interest, considering the fabulous Stevens rifles he was also displaying.

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October 9, 2017 - 1:01 am
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Bert H. said 

Each one of the rifles was also specially modified to include a hammer block safety, as the Camp Perry match required a functional safety.  

That I remember clearly on Gary’s rifle–it was the one feature of the otherwise rather plain looking H.W. that caught my attention.

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October 9, 2017 - 1:29 am
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clarence said

Years ago (25+), Gary Quinlan showed me one of the International Matches he said had the special rimless extractor; he seemed very excited about it, though I confess I couldn’t muster a lot of interest, considering the fabulous Stevens rifles he was also displaying.  

Clarence,

Gary Quinlan either did not know what he was talking about, or he had a rifle that was modified after the fact.  All (27) of the International Match rifles listed in the factory ledgers specifically state “30-06 Rim”.  Per the factory records, none of them were made for a rimless cartridge or made with a special extractor.

Bert

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October 10, 2017 - 6:20 pm
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So what was the screw on the left side of the receiver near where the extractor would be?  Was that the hammer block that was required?

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October 10, 2017 - 7:34 pm
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Old-Win said
So what was the screw on the left side of the receiver near where the extractor would be?  Was that the hammer block that was required?  

The large head slotted screw on the upper left rear side of the receiver frame is part of the hammer block safety.  The extractor is located on the opposite end of the receiver frame.

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Jerry Bode
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February 23, 2019 - 2:51 am
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JimLowe said
Has anyone heard of an 1885 high wall in 30 N.S. Caliber.  

I own an 1885 Winchester high wall in a 30 US caliber with a round barrel. Looking for a different barrel as rifling is pitted in mine. 

My rifle is original and thought it would be best to replace with a good original; if I can find one. Have no idea where to look. Do you know of any possibilities? ….Thanks ….Jerry

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February 23, 2019 - 3:48 am
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Jerry Bode said

I own an 1885 Winchester high wall in a 30 US caliber with a round barrel. Looking for a different barrel as rifling is pitted in mine. 

My rifle is original and thought it would be best to replace with a good original; if I can find one. Have no idea where to look. Do you know of any possibilities? ….Thanks ….Jerry  

Jerry,

The odds of finding an original barrel for your high-wall is unfortunately very slim.  Winchester manufactured just 1,067 total high-walls in the 30 U.S. caliber.

Bert

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January 26, 2024 - 4:29 pm
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clarence said

Years ago (25+), Gary Quinlan showed me one of the International Matches he said had the special rimless extractor;

Gary Quinlan either did not know what he was talking about, or he had a rifle that was modified after the fact.  All (27) of the International Match rifles listed in the factory ledgers specifically state “30-06 Rim”.  Per the factory records, none of them were made for a rimless cartridge or made with a special extractor.

Bert H. said

  

So Bert, does Roger Adam know what HE is talking about in his Int. Match Rifle piece in the current Journal?  It’s true that they were initially made for the rimless cartridge, but were “shortly after” converted to rimless BY THE FACTORY. 

And does Roger misunderstand the purpose of the rimless extractor retention screw?

“That large headed screw on the upper rear left side of the receiver frame is not for the extractor.  Instead, it is for the mandated safety locking device that was required by the Palma Match rules. By turning it 1/4 turn, it blocked the hammer from falling if the trigger was pulled.”

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