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High grade 1873 for sale
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March 8, 2018 - 1:36 am
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cwachter said

I don’t know where you live but you need to go to the auctions like some of the ones you mentioned.  Go to the gun shows in Cody, Denver, Las Vegas, Reno, Ohio, Baltimore etc.  Get out and look.  Pick up every gun you see and talk to everyone you can.  It will save you money in the long run.  I know it sounds like an oxymoron but there are some honest gun dealers out there.  Find one of these and see if he will help you out.  I have been collecting for quite a long time and still ask for opinions before I buy.   

When you don’t travel it makes shopping more difficult. My friend, who is an antique gun dealer, deals only in low to middle quality guns. He said every time he has had a really high finish gun everyone suspects something is wrong. This doesn’t look right, or that doesn’t look right. Everyone is a contrarian. With all of the messed with guns, everyone is very suspicious, and with good reason. The only reason I look at this guys Winchesters is that he has so many really rare ones. The one good thing about buying from him is it is pretty risk free. He has 100% A feedback, and is dependent on keeping it. If you got a gun and it was not right on inspection, if you raised a fuss and said you would leave scathing feedback, you would certainly get your money back. Try that if you buy a gun at one of the auction houses or at a gun show and inspect it closely later at home.  I will keep looking, but be cautious, and ask opinions. 

Suppose I found a correct gun that looked like this, would this price be reasonable?

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March 8, 2018 - 3:59 am
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TR said
 Wolfbait, Guess what, I have S/N 70947 in my gun room; sent April 18, 1881 to order number 25167 with the other gun, same exact features. I’ve had it for twenty years, small world. T/R  

WOW! Pretty amazing. Buy a lotto ticket. Where do you think that order went?

 

Mike

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March 8, 2018 - 4:18 am
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Wolfbait, My gun is s/n 70947 eight higher than his, my letter is exactly the same, all features, date, and order number.They are twins by letter only. I laid my gun next to my laptop and compared. (1) The serial number is stamped with the same die but his are lighter, indicating refinish. (2) The checkering pattern is different. (3) The magazine cap on his is a button type and mine sticks out of the forearm cap 3/8″ with tab to engage barrel. (4) My rear sight elevator has flat steps, his has the later style, not correct. (5) My receiver screws are cased,his receiver screws are incorrectly blued. (6) His receiver has been recased, mine is not. My gun is a clean, honest, and original 95% factory finish gun. I value my gun at 20k and easy to sell. I value his at 8k and hard to sell. If you don’t explain the recase when you sell, you will have a enemy when the buyer finds out. When a collector sells a gun through a auction house he pays 15% seller fee and the buyer pays a 15% buyers fee plus sales tax? shipping? insurance? The seller is getting 60% of what the buyer is paying. Collectors when selling will bend prices and give you a break. BUY FROM COLLECTORS, GO TO GUN SHOWS WITH THE BOYS, HAVE A FEW COLD ONES, IT’S FUN.   T/R

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March 8, 2018 - 4:35 am
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TXGunNut said

WOW! Pretty amazing. Buy a lotto ticket. Where do you think that order went?

 

Mike  

  Mike, I’m going to have Cody check the ledger, I wonder how many they sent out with the exact same features to the same order. It’s not like they are carbines or common rifles. T/R

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March 8, 2018 - 5:58 am
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TR said
Wolfbait, My gun is s/n 70947 eight higher than his, my letter is exactly the same, all features, date, and order number.They are twins by letter only. I laid my gun next to my laptop and compared. (1) The serial number is stamped with the same die but his are lighter, indicating refinish. (2) The checkering pattern is different. (3) The magazine cap on his is a button type and mine sticks out of the forearm cap 3/8″ with tab to engage barrel. (4) My rear sight elevator has flat steps, his has the later style, not correct. (5) My receiver screws are cased,his receiver screws are incorrectly blued. (6) His receiver has been recased, mine is not. My gun is a clean, honest, and original 95% factory finish gun. I value my gun at 20k and easy to sell. I value his at 8k and hard to sell. If you don’t explain the recase when you sell, you will have a enemy when the buyer finds out. When a collector sells a gun through a auction house he pays 15% seller fee and the buyer pays a 15% buyers fee plus sales tax? shipping? insurance? The seller is getting 60% of what the buyer is paying. Collectors when selling will bend prices and give you a break. BUY FROM COLLECTORS, GO TO GUN SHOWS WITH THE BOYS, HAVE A FEW COLD ONES, IT’S FUN.   T/R  

Thanks. I think I will stick to my lower grade Winchesters. I have 30, 73s, 92s, and 94s, and have no trouble determining their originality. 

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March 8, 2018 - 3:42 pm
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There are also several dealers on GB, Austins Guns, and Chayns1969, that have high finish guns for sale and are honest. Just keep your hand in the air with one of their guns…you will own it and have something in the end. I would trust both of them with anything they had for sale verses that clown who is selling the gun you are looking at. That gun is an obvious mess. Peter

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March 8, 2018 - 4:18 pm
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 Wolfbait, Gun Shows are necessary to create interest in the hobby and build a quality collection, example. In 2004 I was walking the Tulsa Show when I ran into Larry Orr, a gun dealer from South Dakota. He said he had a gun I would like, I followed him to his table and he produced a 76 Dlx Ex Hvy in 45-75 Target rifle. It lettered with long range vernier & windgauge sights and a set trigger. It didn’t take long to cut a deal and I left with a rare gun I still own. Larry is a honest, fair, and knowledgeable dealer. He sold me what I was looking for at a modest profit and I’m still happy today. That would not have taken place if I had not been going to gun shows, talking to dealers and collectors. I developed a in person verbal relationship with collectors and dealers while attending gun shows previously. You can not do this on the internet!  Remember most gun dealers are also collectors, a in person conversation will give you insight into who you can trust. References are readily available all thru the show. Dealing with someone on the internet that you have never meet or dealt with is risky! Talking on the phone helps, but it’s not like looking someone in the eye. T/R

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March 8, 2018 - 4:21 pm
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TR said
 Wolfbait, Gun Shows are necessary to create interest in the hobby and build a quality collection, example. In 2004 I was walking the Tulsa Show when I ran into Larry Orr, a gun dealer from South Dakota. He said he had a gun I would like, I followed him to his table and he produced a 76 Dlx Ex Hvy in 45-75 Target rifle. It lettered with long range vernier & windgauge sights and a set trigger. It didn’t take long to cut a deal and I left with a rare gun I still own. Larry is a honest, fair, and knowledgeable dealer. He sold me what I was looking for a modest profit and I’m still happy today. That would not have taken place if I had not been going to gun shows, talking to dealers and collectors. I developed a in person verbal relationship with collectors and dealers while attending gun shows previously. You can not do this on the internet!  Remember most gun dealers are also collectors, a in person conversation will give you insight into who you can trust. References are readily available all thru the show. Dealing with someone on the internet that you have never meet or dealt with is risky! Talking on the phone helps, but it’s not like looking someone in the eye. T/R  

Sounds like fun. Wish I could travel to gun shows.

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March 8, 2018 - 4:26 pm
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 Wolfbait, Then you need a dealer you can trust. t/R

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March 8, 2018 - 5:27 pm
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Wolfbait, you still have not told us where you live…. If we new that, maybe there is someone in your area you could hook up with.

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March 8, 2018 - 7:13 pm
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The days are probably long gone when a person could acquire a nice Winchester collection by going door to door in the country and visit farmers or country general stores and pick up decent guns for a pittance. I bought most of my guns that way. The guns are for the most part well used as one would expect when owned by farmers or trappers and other rural folk but in my case those are the very guns I like best. Those banged up stocks and unblued actions and barrels have an appeal that a gun that was stored away and never used can ever have. When I worked on the coast of James Bay I was employed for a time with a man who owned a goose hunting camp. The clientele were largely wealthy US hunters who arrived with very expensive firearms, mostly double guns such as Purdey , Holland and Holland and Model 21’s etc. In fitted leather cases.They were nice to see and occasionally shoot but I had more fun asking around about old guns among the native inhabitants and buying the guns used by them for their subsistence hunting and among them  occasional well used 1897, 1892 or 1894 would turn up in a tent or a trappers shack deep in the forest. Even after a half century when I hold any of those guns they bring back happy memories of the person and the place where I found it. I am glad that I lived in the times that I did. I wouldn’t trade any of them for this reworked-refinished 1873 or anybgun bought off the Internet or gun show table but that is just my humble opinion of what gun collecting has meant to me.

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March 8, 2018 - 11:54 pm
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I would second Eagle and TR’s statements. Austin (Austin’s guns) and Chris (Chayns1969) are good trust worthy guys that find and sell great guns at fair prices. I know them both and have bought from them with nothing but great results. Larry Orr is also I supper nice and trust worthy dealer. There are many great guys buying, trading and collecting great Winchester’s. The bottom line is the guys that you can trust and are knowledgeable about the craft of dealing in high end guns will want top dollar for there stuff. I enjoy getting a nice deal on things I buy but the relationships I’ve developed with with other gun guys are the most enjoyable part of collecting Winchester’s. Thinking your going to find top notch items for bargain prices is just ridiculous thinking. You get what you pay for.

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March 9, 2018 - 4:26 am
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Another great GB seller is “diamond1210”.  I won a 95% condition S.F.P.D. marked 1894 carbine from this seller for a little over 4 grand.  I contacted this seller after the auction and gave him my FFL information and he shipped the gun the very next day.  I hadn’t even had a chance to mail my payment.  I was shocked and asked him why on earth would he ship before receiving payment ($4,100 ain’t chump change).  He said that he’s an honest guy and that trust works both ways–he’s trusting me for the money and I’m trusting him for the rifle.  Good point, but I’ve never experienced that level of trust from a complete stranger before.  I check his auctions weekly and he has high quality and honest guns for sale.  A little slim on Winchesters lately though.

Don

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March 9, 2018 - 6:44 pm
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wolfbait said
I get it, you hate the guy. So, any problems with the gun? He shows plenty of pictures to critique. Guns like he is selling are just not available elsewhere, and I am a buyer.  

The list of problems with that gun are longer than my Grocery List. 

Lets just say, every part that has a finish on it, its not the original finish. The blued finish, the case hardened finish, the wood finish. 

So I guess if unless you consider just finishes of gun to make up only 5% of its total condition. Then you have a 95% gun. I don’t know who grades a gun condition like that. The NRA doesn’t and as far as I know none of use here would.

All that is just talking about the finish, don’t get me started on the parts themselves.

Maverick

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March 9, 2018 - 11:30 pm
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Laugh!

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March 10, 2018 - 5:01 pm
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Eagle said
There are also several dealers on GB, Austins Guns, and Chayns1969, that have high finish guns for sale and are honest. Just keep your hand in the air with one of their guns…you will own it and have something in the end. I would trust both of them with anything they had for sale verses that clown who is selling the gun you are looking at. That gun is an obvious mess. Peter  

started47 said
I would second Eagle and TR’s statements. Austin (Austin’s guns) and Chris (Chayns1969) are good trust worthy guys that find and sell great guns at fair prices. I know them both and have bought from them with nothing but great results. Larry Orr is also I supper nice and trust worthy dealer. There are many great guys buying, trading and collecting great Winchester’s. The bottom line is the guys that you can trust and are knowledgeable about the craft of dealing in high end guns will want top dollar for there stuff. I enjoy getting a nice deal on things I buy but the relationships I’ve developed with with other gun guys are the most enjoyable part of collecting Winchester’s. Thinking your going to find top notch items for bargain prices is just ridiculous thinking. You get what you pay for.  

I agree as well.

Both Austin and Chris are not only very knowledgeable and honest but go out of their to educate newer collectors. 

IMG_0805-Copy-Copy-Copy.JPG

Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

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March 10, 2018 - 6:57 pm
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I like that while we call out sellers that are nefarious or misleading, we also give credit to those who deserve it.  I would add a hearty +1 on both Austinsguns and Chayns (Chris).  I would add this very knowledgeable and first class internet seller (Jackthedog – Mark) as well:

https://www.gunauction.com/buy/14790787

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March 10, 2018 - 7:43 pm
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I’ve also had great knowledgeable and fair dealings on GB with a seller named twobitrifles.

 

Sort of sounds familiar…

 

Steve

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