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Take a look at the gap between the receiver and the forearm on this one. What causes this and is there any way to remedy? Can wood really shrink that much?
Don
What causes it is simple… that forend stock is not original to that gun. The remedy… stop putting together guns for the purpose of profiteering. The one thing that it is not, is “shrinkage”, so No, it cannot shrink that much.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I find the piece a bit suspect. What interests me is that it appears in the letterable range – yet no mention of letter. A carbine like this really needs a letter!
Bert H. said
What causes it is simple… that forend stock is not original to that gun. The remedy… stop putting together guns for the purpose of profiteering. The one thing that it is not, is “shrinkage”, so No, it cannot shrink that much.
Wow Bert. How did you conclude the forend not being original? Did you already have this carbine documented in your survey in a different configuration, or?? Would be nice if the Groves would post the entire serial numbers on their guns…
Don
deerhunter said
Bert H. said
What causes it is simple… that forend stock is not original to that gun. The remedy… stop putting together guns for the purpose of profiteering. The one thing that it is not, is “shrinkage”, so No, it cannot shrink that much.
Wow Bert. How did you conclude the forend not being original? Did you already have this carbine documented in your survey in a different configuration, or?? Would be nice if the Groves would post the entire serial numbers on their guns…
Don
Like Bert said the forend may match a letter but it is not original to this gun. Terrible fit and the color is way off from that of the stock. Usually both pieces are made from the same piece of wood. As far as a partial serial number, Gosh, I wonder why anyone would do that? Makes it hard to get a letter?
Online
As the owner of a Classic 1866, told me in many cases Shrinkage is due to Sanding, or switching.. for the most part..Bill
What I also find interesting is that there is ZERO bluing left on the receiver and scratches on the right hand side of it but the butt stock is pristine! It looks like it was made yesterday! Or at most a few months ago. I always look at the entire rifle and ask myself does the entire piece appear on the same condition? Is it worn evenly across all surfaces?
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
twobit said
What I also find interesting is that there is ZERO bluing left on the receiver and scratches on the right hand side of it but the butt stock is pristine! It looks like it was made yesterday! Or at most a few months ago. I always look at the entire rifle and ask myself does the entire piece appear on the same condition? Is it worn evenly across all surfaces?Michael
I agree. The condition and wear of this rifle doesn’t add up.
Take a close look at the stud holding the sling ring. Definatly not right.
tionesta1 said
Take a close look at the stud holding the sling ring. Definatly not right.
So it should look like a real ring stud as shown below??? How could a well known dealer have missed that?
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
twobit said
tionesta1 said
Take a close look at the stud holding the sling ring. Definatly not right.
So it should look like a real ring stud as shown below??? How could a well known dealer have missed that?
Michael
Exactly.
Wood can and will shrink but it does so across the grain. The shrinkage lengthwise is normally so minimal as never to be noticed. This is why the fit on a buttplate can be off a little. It also can and will change depending on the humidity. Dry will shrink and moist will swell. Generally the older wood is the less this will occur but it still can.
THIS ALL STARTED WITH JUST ONE GUN!
Wood can and will shrink but it does so across the grain.Old Guns said
Little more than yr ago a friend & I nailed down 5/4 X 6″ decking planks to build a new floor at my Club range. We used a 5′ steel bar to wedge the planks as tightly together as possible to prevent brass from getting caught if cracks developed between the boards. An exercise in futility, as cracks between the planks now range from 1/4″ min to 1/2″.
clarence said
Wood can and will shrink but it does so across the grain.Old Guns said
Little more than yr ago a friend & I nailed down 5/4 X 6″ decking planks to build a new floor at my Club range. We used a 5′ steel bar to wedge the planks as tightly together as possible to prevent brass from getting caught if cracks developed between the boards. An exercise in futility, as cracks between the planks now range from 1/4″ min to 1/2″.
For the rifle under discussion, the gap is not large enough for a piece of brass to fall into. Still, I don’t think it is an example of shrinkage. It comes down to how much is too much when it comes to labeling something shrinkage. My recollection is often when I do see a small gap, it tends to be associated with fancy wood. Even this rebarreled M1886 that we’ve been discussing on another thread, has a small gap:
The other observation I have is the gap is almost always seen between the forearm and the front of the frame vs. the buttstock and the rear of the receiver. “Shrinkage” around the tangs is always suspect as sanding is a possibility. The gap we see between the front of the receiver and the rear of the forearm would not be caused by sanding (although sanding will cause the wood to be below the metal?
I started a topic on the gap subject in March of 2021. The various gaps I have seen over the years have interested me and spotting a significant gap on a rifle used as part of the WACO website advertising caught my attention:
Lets just face it, look where the gun is coming from! I can show you another too.
clarence said
Wood can and will shrink but it does so across the grain.Old Guns said
Little more than yr ago a friend & I nailed down 5/4 X 6″ decking planks to build a new floor at my Club range. We used a 5′ steel bar to wedge the planks as tightly together as possible to prevent brass from getting caught if cracks developed between the boards. An exercise in futility, as cracks between the planks now range from 1/4″ min to 1/2″.
You undoubtedly were not using kiln dried American Black Walnut for deck planking. Typical deck planking is pressure treated softwood or Cedar, both of which will shrink and warp when exposed to the elements. Hardwoods when properly dried almost never shrink with typical use.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
You undoubtedly were not using kiln dried American Black Walnut for deck planking.
No, but I’ll make a special point of ordering that for my next decking job. Or maybe fiddle-back maple.
clarence said
Bert H. said
You undoubtedly were not using kiln dried American Black Walnut for deck planking.
No, but I’ll make a special point of ordering that for my next decking job. Or maybe fiddle-back maple.
Make sure to let us know how much it costs 
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I have built my share of furniture with American Walnut aged and dried for 20 years. When it comes from outside to inside it always shrinks a little. Dovetails that were perfectly flush will sit slightly below the end grain. Humidity affects wood. The gap on the gun is not from shrinkage. Fancy wood is unstable thus you never see it in any areas requiring the wood to strong and straight. We all know Winchester made sure the wrist grain was straight.
THIS ALL STARTED WITH JUST ONE GUN!
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