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I know that refinishing a gun generally kills the resale value. But what about cleaning up the stock a bit. This 1886 in 45-70 has basically no bluing left and the stock is turning black.
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Perfect as it is….
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”
President Harry S. Truman
November 7, 2015
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I’m not sure you’d be able to get that stock to clean up much and if you were successful it would lose some of the character that I admire in it now. I’d give it a gentle cleaning to prevent/mitigate rust and if the wood looked dry I’d rub a little BLO into it. OTOH it may look nice if you clean it up with mineral spirits and apply a tung oil finish. I’ve done that with neglected, oil-stained stocks and have been happy with the results.
Mike
cwachter said
Hand rub some oil on the wood and then leave it alone.
The last thing he needs to do, since oil is probably what has turned it black. The standard treatment for military stocks which are often times drenched with oil is to wipe them with solvent-soaked rags. Might start with paint thinner or turpentine, but their oil cutting action is weak, so it might take lacquer thinner to have any noticeable effect. I’ve used carbon tetrachloride for that purpose, but like many other effective products it’s now banned by the EPA.
I think that most people here would agree that one of our motives in collecting the type of firearms we talk about here is to preserve. Preserve the Winchesters themselves and preserve the information about them.
I can’t say that I personally have the definitive answer to what is good or bad for wood and unfortunately whenever you find “the answer” it is debunked by the next expert who has a better idea.
That Winchester likely has a dozen types of oil on/in it. Without in depth analysis what they are is impossible to say but you could sum it up with anything from bear to whale and a lot of petroleum in-between.
Which ones are good for wood and which are not? I don’t know.
One thing that I do believe is that gunstocks are furniture as they are often called. I cite just one article I read recently on this subject when I was looking at a way to pull some of the “too dark” off my recently acquired Mod 63 without disrupting the remaining lacquer finish. I think I might have gotten 10% or so lighter by absorbing it out. It looks better but not refinished.
From the article:
“The problem with oil – any kind of oil applied to finished surface – is what happens next. There are basically two kinds of oil: drying and non-drying. The non-drying is the least harmful initially since it doesn’t undergo a chemical reaction. The most common non-drying oils are lemon oil, orange oil and mineral oil. These oils have a very slow evaporation rate and remain on the surface in a microscopically thin semi liquid state for days – even weeks – after application. As a result, they produce a surface that smears easily and accumulates every particle of dust, pollen and pollution that passes its way. The build up eventually must be removed.
Drying oils such as tung oil or linseed oil are especially harmful since they actually undergo a chemical change as they dry and attempt to bond chemically with the surface. As they become hard through oxidation, they become difficult to remove and over time the accumulation of layers of dried oil forms a shell over the old finish and eventually turns dark, obscuring the original surface.”
http://www.antiquetrader.com/featured/is-tung-oil-safe-for-antique-furniture-no-not-really/
jban said
Drying oils such as tung oil or linseed oil are especially harmful since they actually undergo a chemical change as they dry and attempt to bond chemically with the surface. As they become hard through oxidation, they become difficult to remove and over time the accumulation of layers of dried oil forms a shell over the old finish and eventually turns dark, obscuring the original surface.”
I’m no wood finish expert or on what the factory used, I’m sure others on the forum maybe, but that said I’m pretty sure “Linseed Oil” was part or partial to what used to finish the stocks before leaving the factory. So I don’t know why re-applying some would be that harmful. But I always leave this sort of things to the professionals and have only tinkered with stocks.
Sincerely,
Maverick
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https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
I have a 1892 rifle that had very dark, dry looking stocks. I removed them and washed them with mineral spirits and 0000 steel wool. I then rubbed about 3 coats of thinned ,John Kay’s Winchester Oil into the wood , waiting 24 hours between each coat. It looks great and I feel it is a necessary step in regular maintenance on old guns. I never attempt to remove dents/dings nor do I ever sand on the wood. The purpose is to clean and preserve. Leave the character.
Maverick said
jban said
Drying oils such as tung oil or linseed oil are especially harmful since they actually undergo a chemical change as they dry and attempt to bond chemically with the surface. As they become hard through oxidation, they become difficult to remove and over time the accumulation of layers of dried oil forms a shell over the old finish and eventually turns dark, obscuring the original surface.”I’m no wood finish expert or on what the factory used, I’m sure others on the forum maybe, but that said I’m pretty sure “Linseed Oil” was part or partial to what used to finish the stocks before leaving the factory. So I don’t know why re-applying some would be that harmful. But I always leave this sort of things to the professionals and have only tinkered with stocks.
Sincerely,
Maverick
I agree with the boiled linseed oil. It was used by the factory. Excess oil running onto the wood over a very long period or water damage usually causes the black areas. BLO will soak in and refresh the wood. For those that want to go further add a small amount of True Oil. If character is your number one preference mild soapy water will clean it and then you can leave it alone.
I went ahead and cleaned it up a bit. Mineral spirits had no effect. I went after it with 0000 steel wood and after much effort I can at least see some color and wood grain. Still black in spots, but didn’t want to remove any wood, or at least very little. I didn’t try to remove any dents, just get past the black finish.
i then put one coat of true oil on. I’ll let it hang overnight and see how it looks. I don’t want any gloss, just protect the wood.
Dmc said
I don’t want any gloss, just protect the wood.
Unwanted gloss is the problem I’ve always had with TruOil. Can be buffed off the surface if it’s perfectly smooth, but what do you do about areas of unfilled grain, & all the little scratches, dings, etc., an old stock usually has, which can’t be buffed?
I’m using Tung Oil. I put one coat on the stock and there is no gloss. I haven’t done much to the forearm yet, just tried to clean it some. I’ll pull it off later and try and get to where I can at least see some grain.
A gun is only original once….
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”
President Harry S. Truman
Tedk said
A gun is only original once….
I understand, but it’s not exactly a high dollar gun. The bluing is long gone and whatever finish was on the gun was blackened. Who knows what was put on the stock over the years. There was no protection.
I picked up some 45-70 shells and I’ll see how I like it after I try it out at the range.
I agree with not messing with the wood or metal on a high dollar collectable gun, leave those as-is! However, for a gun of only moderate or low collector interest or value, I personally see nothing wrong with cleaning it up a bit to enhance ones pride of ownership and personal satisfaction with the piece if you intend to keep it. On another forum some time back, several members had suggested that mild cleaning and moisturizing of what was left of the original finish (if there still was any) could be done quite satisfactorily by using Kramer’s Best Antique Improver. It is a liquid that is applied following the simple instructions, and it seems to do very well. Below are before and after pics of my Hutton stocked Short action Model 70.
I applied Kramer’s to the stock twice and it rejuvenated it to a remarkable extent. The Kramer’s soaks in and leaves nothing on the surface of the wood. I wasn’t afraid to give it a try!
This is an old thread, but I want to add my recent experience agonizing over leaving a stock as-is, refinish, or restore. After a lot of research, both online and at such gun shows that still exist, I decided to go the restoration route. I have many years of amateur experience with furniture and felt competent in doing this.
A little background first. During the summer of 2020, I bought a 1912 vintage 1894 TD in 32 WS. Having a receiver that had been drilled and tapped for a peep sight some time in the past and general “shooter” condition made it affordable for me. Under magnification, the stock finish (both fore end and butt) appeared to have been “worked on” in the past, which removed the as-is option for me. Thanks to many posts here, I also dropped the “refinish” option.
To make a long story a little shorter, I removed the stocks and chemically stripped them to bare wood without sanding. I then used acetone to soak out most of the black oil from both pieces. I stopped that process short of 100%, and also left all dents, scratches, and gouges as is.
It took nearly two months more, because I then used John Kay’s Winchester Oil (great stuff!), following his instructions closely to hand-rub fifteen coats to an attractive (to me) sheen with deep color.
I achieved my personal goal – an old rifle with the “character” that develops over time, but has been well cared-for over the years. The corners are still sharp and the wood is proud of the metal, just as it was when I took it apart (I measured).
I had no intention of fooling anyone with this work or “adding value”. It was a fun project from start to finish and something that makes me happy to look at, handle, and shoot.
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