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I’m certain many of you have seen this display but the July 2024 WACA event was my first time to tour the Cody museum. At the show, TxGunNut and I were discussing the career of William Mason. Mike said something that has stuck with me, to the effect that “John Browning invented guns; Mason made them capable of being manufactured.” That is my understanding, too but these displayed models, which appear to be in very advanced states, raise a couple of questions in my mind:
1. Were these displayed models fabricated in Utah by the Browning Brothers and brought to New Haven for sale to Winchester, as was Browning’s custom? Or were they fabricated in New Haven by Mason to incorporate his refinements into Browning’s inventions? [implying these were not the earlier, cruder, models presented to Bennett for sale.]
2. Given their refined appearance, if they were fabricated in Utah, is their any record of the nature and extent of Mason’s improvements to, e.g., the 1886?
I use the 86 as an example because we know Winchester publicly asserted in writing, following Browning’s departure on being refused royalties for his automatic shotgun, that the 86 was mostly the work of Mason, the Browning Bros having contributed the locking features only.
The provenance cards in the display attribute these models only to Browning Bros, but that may be an oversimplification for lack of card space. If we knew who made the models and where, it might illuminate [at least for me] the issue of who did what.
Anyone with knowledge?
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
No idea who, when, & where, but checkering pattern on top gun doesn’t resemble Win factory work.
November 7, 2015
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Bill-
It’s my understanding they are prototypes produced in Utah by the Brownings but I don’t recall where that came from, possibly the earlier edition of that exhibit. The museum catalog often has more information than the cards. Perhaps someone here has a copy.
Mike
Yes, the catalog might help. I wish I had one. Are they still in print?
Clarence is right about the checkering on the uppermost model that became the 1886 eventually. From articles in John Amber’s Gun Digests, I think I recall seeing at least one original, Ogden- built, Browning Bros single shot rifle, possibly in the Browning Museum. Its fit and finish was at least as good as the displayed experimental 86.
I also recall from various histories of the Browning guns and the brothers themselves that what John Mose and Matthew brought to New Haven were handmade but fully functional arms that had been shot repeatedly.
Considering the foregoing, I shouldn’t be surprised if these models were made in Ogden. If that is so, it would appear the size, shape, and external configuration of the 1886 as a complete rifle was Browning’s work. We might have to look to the internals for Mason’s improvements.
Of course, we can probably assume Browning had a hard look at the 1876 and the Ballard/Marlin before he started.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
So the top two are .45-70’s. Do we know the chamberings of the bottom two?
Zebulon said
Of course, we can probably assume Browning had a hard look at the 1876 and the Ballard/Marlin before he started.
Bill,
The would be a erroneous assumption. The Model 1886 internals are not even remotely the same as a Model 1876/1873/1966, or a Marlin Ballard. The Model 1886 was patterned more closely to the Single Shot than it was a Model 1876.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
The 2 top guns stocks and butt plates and forearm caps look a lot like a Marlin 1881 and also the magazine attachments.
Bert H. said
Zebulon said
Of course, we can probably assume Browning had a hard look at the 1876 and the Ballard/Marlin before he started.
Bill,
The would be a erroneous assumption. The Model 1886 internals are not even remotely the same as a Model 1876/1873/1966, or a Marlin Ballard. The Model 1886 was patterned more closely to the Single Shot than it was a Model 1876.
Bert
Good evening, Bert. I did not write as clearly as I should have done. What i meant was, when Browning set out to design the 1886, he obviously followed the overall external lines and dimensions of existing lever action rifles chambered for relatively long, rifle-length cartridges, especially the Marlin. The vertically rising pair of blocking tenons in the mating mortise halves of the breech bolt and receiver walls were of his own unique design, but there was no need for him to reinvent the buttstock, forearm, loading port, or magazine tube. Henry, King, Mason, and perhaps even Bennett, already had worked those features out and they were not new or unique in the 86.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
steve004 said
So the top two are .45-70’s. Do we know the chamberings of the bottom two?
Steve, I don’t know the specific calibers; the cards in the case don’t say nor do they identify which production model they became.
However, the 3rd specimen looks to me like an 1894, in which case I’d guess it’s chambered for one of the two BP cartridges initially offered.
The 4th specimen looks like the 1892 and I’d bet a donut it’s chambered in 44WCF. since that chambering was the big seller in the 1873, which Bennett was hot to supercede with the 92.
Guesswork.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Zebulon said
The provenance cards in the display attribute these models only to Browning Bros, but that may be an oversimplification for lack of card space. If we knew who made the models and where, it might illuminate [at least for me] the issue of who did what.
I tend to agree that likely the cards are very much an oversimplification. That said, my opinion / belief is that the rifles shown were to have been made by Browning in Utah. This is based on how they look and are finished like other experimental models purchased by Winchester I’ve seen information on. Often complete and incomplete rifles and/or mechanisms were provided by Browning to Winchester. One of example is reportedly known to have been entirely made merely of wood. Furthermore, you can find 3 of the 4 rifles pictured in Richard Rattenbury’s book “The Browning Connection”. The top rifle is pictured on page 20, the 2nd rifle down is on page 22, and the bottom rifle on page 26. The 3rd Rifle I could not find in the book, but a similar rifle I’ve seen where it was sold at auction. Richard book goes into slightly more detail and has pictures showing the rifle actions open and with corresponding patent information.
Browning was capable of producing some very well defined sample models that he provided Winchester.
The difference between of how to determine what Browning made and Winchester made while doing experimental work may boil down to simply how the individual examples are marked. My understanding is that anything made by Winchester specifically in New Haven was well marked as such. But Browning on the other hand may or may not be marked. But often when marked is found “Browning Bros. Ogden, U.T.” with several known examples merely left unmarked.
In the grand scheme of things there is just very little in regards to literature on these experimental rifles. There likely is more information on them at Cody, but you would have to do a lot digging and research to make true headway to thoroughly answer your questions. Currently I’m not aware of a clear well defined history or book or even research paper that details Mason’s or any other Winchester employee’s experimentation with firearms. George Madis did publish a small book on experimental Winchester that merely consists of factory drawings. Herb Houze’s books probably show the most explicit examples of experimental models of those by Winchester. Other than Rattenbury’s book, I don’t know of other reference material for Browning produced experiments.
They have re-cataloged the collection several times over the years. The 92 blue inventory book lists a tag numbered system that was in use back when the Winchester Museum was in New Haven. The latest version Cody uses I believe is a variation of a decimal system and a digital catalog system. Which is why you see a corresponding barcode on the card on the wall. One would hope they kept a clear account of how they changed the catalog system through the years, but that may not be the case. Rattenbury’s book was printed in 1982 and the inventory numbers listed in it do not match the numbers on the cards on the wall of the museum. Several examples that used to be in the New Haven museum collection and even at the Cody museum are no longer at Cody.
Here are some auction pictures of an Browning made 1893 experiment rifle sold to Winchester. It was once upon a time at Cody.
Here is an unmarked example attributed to Browning that was sold to Winchester. You’ll notice it is left-side eject just like the example you posted above.
Here is an example of a experimental receiver. I believe this is attributed to been made by Winchester in New Haven but I’m not certain of this.
Other experimental Winchesters made at the factory shown in the Collector magazine are well marked as such. I’ve got a couple of “Test Bank” barrels used in proving ammunition that are well marked and they were never even cut for threading on the barrel for mounting on a receiver.
steve004 said
So the top two are .45-70’s. Do we know the chamberings of the bottom two?
In Rattenbury’s book, the rifle on page 20 is listed with barrel marked 45 GOVT. The rifle on page 22 is listed .45 CAL. “No Marks”. The rifle on page 26 is liested .44 CAL. “No Marks”.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick – thanks for all the information. The very bottom “rifle” you show – with no barrel and cut buttstock – sort of a blend of a single-shot and a M1892 – I remember Merz had that listed in his catalog for many years. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall watching them make that up. Specifically conversation about exactly what they were intending would be be fascinating.
Maverick,
Concur and thank you. From the photos you’ve posted of models documented as Ogden-made, it seems obvious (to me) that Browning Bros were fully capable of delivering finished or near-finished, functional prototypes to Bennett.
That being the case, if we conclude the models in the Cody display are sui generis from Browning’s own hands, I do have to question Bennett’s assertion to dealers that the 1886 was more largely to William Mason’s credit.
I’m not one to discount the skills of Mason, or, for the matter of that, of Johnson his successor, but i don’t believe the works of either ever demonstrated the profound and enduring flashes of brilliance evident in J. M. Browning’s arms designs. Johnson in particular deserves credit for rendering graceful and appealing guns, but both he and Mason were better at smoothing and modifying to enable mass production than creating industry-altering designs.
The late Herb Houze in his History of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, attempted to crown Mason as the greatest firearms inventor of the 19th Century but I have always believed that assertion reflected his loyalty to his friends and colleagues and was tinged by a still lingering, historical animosity between the Browning and Winchester firms. It’s ironic but I think in all of our interests, that both wound up in common ownership.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
The Browning Museum in Ogden, Utah has many more of the original Browning prototypes on display. It’s a small museum and not well-known, but it’s definitely a fascinating experience for any Browning or Winchester fan. The one time I made it there, I only had about a half hour before it closed. I could have easily spent a half day there. I’m planning to go back soon with more time to properly take in the museum. Mark
Zebulon said
Maverick,Concur and thank you. From the photos you’ve posted of models documented as Ogden-made, it seems obvious (to me) that Browning Bros were fully capable of delivering finished or near-finished, functional prototypes to Bennett.
That being the case, if we conclude the models in the Cody display are sui generis from Browning’s own hands, I do have to question Bennett’s assertion to dealers that the 1886 was more largely to William Mason’s credit.
I’m not one to discount the skills of Mason, or, for the matter of that, of Johnson his successor, but i don’t believe the works of either ever demonstrated the profound and enduring
flashes ofbrilliance evident in J. M. Browning’s arms designs. Johnson in particular deserves credit for rendering graceful and appealing guns, but both he and Mason were better at smoothing and modifying to enable mass production than creating industry-altering designs.The late Herb Houze in his History of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, attempted to crown Mason as the greatest firearms inventor of the 19th Century but I have always believed that assertion reflected his loyalty to his friends and colleagues and was tinged by a still lingering, historical animosity between the Browning and Winchester firms. It’s ironic but I think in all of our interests, that both wound up in common ownership.
Bill,
I have corrected your otherwise superb prose. John Moses Browning positively demonstrated much than just “flashes” of brilliance in his long and storied career as the preeminent firearms designer!
Bert – a JMB Disciple
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert, I will cheerfully accept the change. I was thinking of the observation of one of JMB’s biographers, that he could visualize an entire mechanism in his head, all at once. Then it was just a matter of working out the proportions of the parts by trial and error, standing behind the half-brother operating a mill or lathe and passing a part back and forth.
The words I was reaching for are “simple”, “strong”, “rugged”, “reliable”, “effective.” Those words apply to every firearm JMB designed that was put in production by somebody. I’m an unabashed fan of the Colt 1911 Goverment Model. The Auto-5 and clones are still hard to beat. The Winchester 1886 and progeny are deathless. We’ve got to give Saive some credit for finishing the P35 and the Superposed but the conceptual designs were from the mind of JMB.
As for the Ma Deuce, my departed shooting partner, a retired Infantry battalion commander, once told me, “Look outside your front door in every direction. There’s nothing you see an M2 can’t destroy!” Still true.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Seems the most I know about Mason came from Harold Williamson’s Winchester book. It does seem he played a very crucial role in the Browning designed rifles coming to market (other rifles too).
Mark – thanks for the tip. I would love to see the Browning museum in Utah. I’ll keep it in mind if I get out that way.
Zebulon said
Bert, I will cheerfully accept the change. I was thinking of the observation of one of JMB’s biographers, that he could visualize an entire mechanism in his head, all at once. Then it was just a matter of working out the proportions of the parts by trial and error, standing behind the half-brother operating a mill or lathe and passing a part back and forth.The words I was reaching for are “simple”, “strong”, “rugged”, “reliable”, “effective.” Those words apply to every firearm JMB designed that was put in production by somebody. I’m an unabashed fan of the Colt 1911 Government Model. The Auto-5 and clones are still hard to beat. The Winchester 1886 and progeny are deathless. We’ve got to give Saive some credit for finishing the P35 and the Superposed but the conceptual designs were from the mind of JMB.
As for the Ma Deuce, my departed shooting partner, a retired Infantry battalion commander, once told me, “Look outside your front door in every direction. There’s nothing you see an M2 can’t destroy!” Still true.
It has been written that JMB could actually visualize everything in 3-D in his mind (which is apparently a very rare human ability). That enabled him to physically construct and operate the entire mechanism in his mind before beginning the process of building a working model. In multiple instances, he and his brother were able to create a working prototype in a single day!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
steve004 said
Seems the most I know about Mason came from Harold Williamson’s Winchester book. It does seem he played a very crucial role in the Browning designed rifles coming to market (other rifles too).
A brilliant invention that can’t be mass-produced profitably benefits no one, making Mason’s role nearly as important as JB’s, I would say. Not unlike the role played by Horace Smith, the older, more experienced gunmaker, in his partnership with Dan Wesson while working on the design of the Volcanic; though in this case the fact that the two partners were also close friends facilitated cooperation.
Steve, Agreed. I don’t think JMB had any experience in mass production or any particular fascination to learn it. We know he learned gun repair in his father’s workshop and was otherwise self-taught. The English Morman Frank Rushton, schooled in British gunmaking, joined Browning Bros about 1881 specifically to organize and fit out a shop to make guns in volume, although it became unnecessary.
Whereas Mason had worked for Remington (? – 1866) and then Colt’s (1866-1882) before coming to Winchester in 1882, becoming its Master Mechanic in 1885 and remaining in that position until his death in 1913.
I’ve read Mason was largely responsible for the Single Action Army, both the design and seeing it into production. Of course, before 1866 Colt, King, Jarvis and others had already developed the 1836 Patterson, the Walker, Dragoon, Pocket, Army and Navy Civil War revolvers. Mason arrived at Colt’s in time to help develop the Richards-Mason cartridge conversion, of which one can argue the 1872 Open Top and 1873 SAA are largely improvements, readily granting that the 1873 is a brilliant synthesis of the best features of all its predecessors built by the company.
Still, one can argue the Colt SAA was a demonstration of Mason’s real strength — taking a good product and seriously improving it. Rather than being JMB’s pee r, an original inventor.
How much Mason really contributed to the success of the Winchester 1886 compared to JMB, may be lost in time.
If I were a younger man and lived closer to Cody, I would ask the museum for permission to study the 1886 design and production files for plans, change orders, design notes, and so forth; and review Mason’s patent applications and letters patent issued. But the shadows have grown too long. It’s moot anyway, I suppose.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015
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Let’s not forget that the Browning Brothers were building rifles for sale to the public before they were “discovered” by Winchester. They could obviously build a finished rifle. And yes, JMB can be described as a creative genius while Mason’s strengths were more technical or practical. It took Mason, Johnson, et al to convert JMB’s prototypes to designs that could be mass-produced with the machinery and labor available. Creating a firearm is one thing, creating the blueprints required for production is quite another. They also had to create all the processes involved in making the parts. Lucky for us Bennett recognized their respective talents, otherwise we’d be collecting coins or McCoy cookie jars.
Mike
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