How big of an impact on the hammer price would you speculate?
My impression (without having held it in my hands) is that the engraving is correct. But, we like guns that letter – especially the most important feature. For sure, the guys that will only buy guns that 100% letter, won’t be bidding on this one. And, we don’t like to make excuses. Selling it down the line, it’s not enjoyable to utter the words, “probably a factory error.” On the other hand, we know of engraved rifles known to be original that don’t letter. In fact, this is not uncommon at all among factory engraved Marlins. So… many ways to look at it. But the bottom line – how much impact?
Steve,
I would not consider bidding on that rifle without first having it looked at (authenticated) by Pauline Muerrle. I personally find it a very hard & long stretch that Winchester did not correctly document that rifle in the factory ledger records… possible, but not very likely.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Steve,I would not consider bidding on that rifle without first having it looked at (authenticated) by Pauline Muerrle. I personally find it a very hard & long stretch that Winchester did not correctly document that rifle in the factory ledger records… possible, but not very likely.
Bert
Thanks Bert. Pauline is a good resource to be reminded of – especially in a situation like this.
Not saying its genuine, but would also say that if its fake / modern engraving that it is well done.
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
I think the answer to Steve’s original question is clear. Simply look a little further down the list and you will find 2 more engraved 86’s. Now,true they are a matched set, but notice the estimates on them as the engraving letters. The low estimate is double the high estimate of the afore mentioned gun. And yes I fully understand that all these guns are at action and they set the prices.
Please let us know what Pauline thinks about it. The other point that is missing in the letter is the non standard magazine length! That point, and the missing engraving notation is exceedingly suspect. Still, it is darn nice looking.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
twobit said
Please let us know what Pauline thinks about it. The other point that is missing in the letter is the non standard magazine length! That point, and the missing engraving notation is exceedingly suspect. Still, it is darn nice looking.Michael
Michael –
Your comment about the non-standard magazine is an excellent observation. It’s interesting that their description addresses the lack of engraving notation in the museum letter but fails to address the non-standard magazine omission in the letter. In fact, their exact statement is, “A half-magazine is fitted underneath.” Well… that’s a statement I would completely agree with
Tom’s point is a good one. RIA predicts this rifle will bring quite a bit less given the uncertain engraving status.
I would not pursue a rifle like this without holding it in my hands. As I’m not going to travel to Texas to do so, I’ll just watch with interest as the hammer falls on it. My own prediction is it will sell at the higher end if not beyond the auction estimate. I realize many buyers will pass, but it only takes two bidders to drive it up. These days, there seems to be a growing number of bidders who have less care for precise originality. And they seem to have plenty of money in their pockets.
Given the fact that ALL auction houses have the same available info as us mere mortals have, one would think they would use those tools. Instead they publish this stuff as gospel and it is based on what? Oh ya what the client says ,and never forget THAT is who they are truly working for. No different than real-estate agents or insurance brokers. Not to say that a lot of legitimate guns don’t pass through their hands, but…. good call By Steve on the referenced 86.
Something else to think about here….. I don’t believe a receiver can be engraved AFTER it is color case hardened. I know that I have wrecked a few files on CCH parts, not knowing they were hardened. I don’t know anything about engraving tools but I can’t believe they would be any harder than a file. I do believe the receiver would have to be annealed and then engraved and then color case hardened again after it left the factory to make it aftermarket engraving. That being said it would of been much more economically feasible to have the work done at the factory. Just my 2 cents worth of opinion.
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