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Engraving on m1886 doesn't letter
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April 28, 2024 - 12:28 am
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How big of an impact on the hammer price would you speculate?

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4091/1038/special-order-engraved-deluxe-winchester-model-1886-rifle

My impression (without having held it in my hands) is that the engraving is correct.  But, we like guns that letter – especially the most important feature.  For sure, the guys that will only buy guns that 100% letter, won’t be bidding on this one.  And, we don’t like to make excuses.  Selling it down the line, it’s not enjoyable to utter the words, “probably a factory error.”  On the other hand, we know of engraved rifles known to be original that don’t letter.  In fact, this is not uncommon at all among factory engraved Marlins.  So… many ways to look at it.  But the bottom line – how much impact?

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April 28, 2024 - 12:41 am
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Steve,

I would not consider bidding on that rifle without first having it looked at (authenticated) by Pauline Muerrle.  I personally find it a very hard & long stretch that Winchester did not correctly document that rifle in the factory ledger records… possible, but not very likely.

Bert

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April 28, 2024 - 2:03 am
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Bert H. said
Steve,

I would not consider bidding on that rifle without first having it looked at (authenticated) by Pauline Muerrle.  I personally find it a very hard & long stretch that Winchester did not correctly document that rifle in the factory ledger records… possible, but not very likely.

Bert

  

Thanks Bert.  Pauline is a good resource to be reminded of – especially in a situation like this.

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April 28, 2024 - 4:00 am
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Not saying its genuine, but would also say that if its fake / modern engraving that it is well done.

Maverick

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April 28, 2024 - 11:16 am
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I think the answer to Steve’s original question is clear. Simply look a little further down the list and you will find 2 more engraved 86’s. Now,true they are a matched set, but notice the estimates on them as the engraving letters. The low estimate is double the high estimate of the afore mentioned gun. And yes I fully understand that all these guns are at action and they set the prices. 

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April 28, 2024 - 1:04 pm
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Please let us know what Pauline thinks about it.  The other point that is missing in the letter is the non standard magazine length!  That point, and the missing engraving notation is exceedingly suspect.  Still, it is darn nice looking.

Michael

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April 28, 2024 - 2:04 pm
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twobit said
Please let us know what Pauline thinks about it.  The other point that is missing in the letter is the non standard magazine length!  That point, and the missing engraving notation is exceedingly suspect.  Still, it is darn nice looking.

Michael

  

Michael –

Your comment about the non-standard magazine is an excellent observation.  It’s interesting that their description addresses the lack of engraving notation in the museum letter but fails to address the non-standard magazine omission in the letter.  In fact, their exact statement is, “A half-magazine is fitted underneath.” Well… that’s a statement I would completely agree with Wink

Tom’s point is a good one.  RIA predicts this rifle will bring quite a bit less given the uncertain engraving status.  

I would not pursue a rifle like this without holding it in my hands.  As I’m not going to travel to Texas to do so, I’ll just watch with interest as the hammer falls on it.  My own prediction is it will sell at the higher end if not beyond the auction estimate.  I realize many buyers will pass, but it only takes two bidders to drive it up.  These days, there seems to be a growing number of bidders who have less care for precise originality.  And they seem to have plenty of money in their pockets.

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April 28, 2024 - 2:46 pm
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It is a very appealing 86, just missing to documentation to back it up. Good on Michael on the mag. Steve you are so right about the bidding now in days. My guns may not be the best but I have the letters to prove what they are. Sorry gotta pass on this one!

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April 28, 2024 - 3:37 pm
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 That’s a gun that warrants a look at the ledger sheet. Look at the lines above, below, and is another gun in the same order. If that turns up something then knowledge would give you a leg up at auction. You would think RIA has already done that. T/R

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May 1, 2024 - 12:02 am
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Given the fact that ALL auction houses have the same available info as us mere mortals have, one would think they would use those tools. Instead they publish this stuff as gospel and it is based on what? Oh ya what the client says ,and never forget THAT is who they are truly working for. No different than real-estate  agents or insurance brokers. Not to say that a lot of legitimate guns don’t pass through their hands, but…. good call By Steve on the referenced 86.  

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May 1, 2024 - 1:44 am
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Something else to think about here….. I don’t believe a receiver can be engraved AFTER it is color case hardened. I know that I have wrecked a few files on CCH parts, not knowing they were hardened. I don’t know anything about engraving tools but I can’t believe they would be any harder than a file. I do believe the receiver would have to be annealed and then engraved and then color case hardened again after it left the factory to make it aftermarket engraving. That being said it would of been much more economically feasible to have the work done at the factory. Just my 2 cents worth of opinion.

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