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See the following:
http://www.mountsavagehistoricalsociety.org/c&p/c&p%20rifle/railroad%20rifle.htm
Note markings C.&P.R.R., which may, or may not, signify the Cumberland & Pennsylvania Railroad.
Legitimately marked, or not? I have not seen these markings before, which, of course, does not mean a whole lot.
CVS,
That is a very nice looking rifle but I have never seen a similar marked gun. It is interesting that a supposed Mail protection rifle that is a 32 WCF and not a 44 WCF. In addition it is commonly assumed that most protection guns were carbines and not OB sporting rifles. Any chance anybody got the full serial number of the rifle so I can add it into my research?
Thanks,
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
I have never seen a similarly marked gun, either. That’s why it raises a red flag! So, the verdict is still out: Legitimate, or not?
Hi,
The seller is a stand up guy. This ’92 ,in my opinion, would be worth twice the selling price if not for the “RR” markings. Lots of guns have been ruined this way.
My question is: why stamp the barrel 3 times?
Walter Blake
This was not an auction, I believe.
wallyb said
Hi,
The seller is a stand up guy. This ’92 ,in my opinion, would be worth twice the selling price if not for the “RR” markings. Lots of guns have been ruined this way.
My question is: why stamp the barrel 3 times?
Walter Blake
This was not an auction, I believe.
It is not for sale on line; I think antiquearmsinc had it for sale once. Is that what you mean by ‘stand up guy’?
I questioned stamping of the barrel 3 times as well. Seems as though once would be sufficient.
So, the verdict is: Not legitimate?
I would say not value premium at all and most likely a small detraction. Otherwise a darn nice looing rifle.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Yes, a nice rifle otherwise. But this detracts from the value of it to the point where I would not even be interested in owning it.
The thing that bothers me about the marking on this gun is that each letter was stamped individually. I would think that any railroad worth its salt would have at least one stamp with all the letters on it. I have a 94 saddle-ring carbine from the Chesapeake & Ohio Railway that is marked “C&O” in 4 places. Two of the markings are on the buttstock (one on each side), and the other two are on either side of the fore-end. I have carefully examined and measured the markings (they are brandings, actually) and they are all exactly alike. No tilted or oddly spaced letters, and all perfectly aligned. I must conclude that the railroad had a branding iron with the “C&O” marking that they used to mark this gun and other property of the railroad.
So, after thinking about this further, and based on some of the responses above, it would be unusual (or very suspicious, in other words) for a firearm used or owned by a railroad or other similar entity (Spruce guns come to mind) to be anything other than a carbine. Do we agree on this?
The word “odd” would be a better way to say it. That stated, I am sure that somebody ordered & used rifles versus carbines.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Back about 1975 I had occasion to visit the home of the retired Superintendent of Police of the C&O Railway. He had several C&O marked guns, one of which was a 92 octagonal barrel rifle in 38-40. It had the same marking on it as the 94 SRC that I have now. I have also seen a Winchester Model 37 shotgun with the same mark.
From what I remember, Mr. Brooks (the retired Superintendent) told me that in WW1 and WW2, the government required the railroads to put an armed guard on every bridge and tunnel on the railroad. The railroad did not have enough guns in their inventory, so went out and bought anything they could to equip these bridge and tunnel guards. Even so, there were still not enough guns to go around, and many times the guards would report for duty, and take the gun and badge from the guy who he was relieving. Others brought their own guns.
Nice rifle, and interesting. Not sure about the markings being correct, although not uncommon to be marked several times. You gotta remember, these were tools, not collectors items back then. This post piqued my interest because I have a Sharps Model 1874 Business Rifle in 45/70 marked in the butt stock NPRR. Northern Pacific Rail Road. No doubt of it being authentic. It was shipped to ST. Paul, Minn. in 1880, just in time for the Montana buffalo hunts. Somewhere along the line the railroad bought it. So, not all railroad guns were carbines or rifles for that matter. I hope yours turns out to be correct.
I have a Model 94 carbine that I bought from Rick Hill that once belonged to Norfolk and Western Railway Company. N&W. RWY. Co. is branded on the top of the comb. N&W purchased a number of these from Winchester to protect the railroad during the labor strikes in 1922. The SN is 937686.
I uploaded a picture. Hope it shows up.
Al
tionesta1 said
I have a Model 94 carbine that I bought from Rick Hill that once belonged to Norfolk and Western Railway Company. N&W. RWY. Co. is branded on the top of the comb. N&W purchased a number of these from Winchester to protect the railroad during the labor strikes in 1922. The SN is 937686.
I uploaded a picture. Hope it shows up.
Al
Finally got the picture to work, Thanks 1873man (Bob). Here’s a picture of my N&W. Rwy. Co. marked carbine.
tionesta1 said
tionesta1 said
I have a Model 94 carbine that I bought from Rick Hill that once belonged to Norfolk and Western Railway Company. N&W. RWY. Co. is branded on the top of the comb. N&W purchased a number of these from Winchester to protect the railroad during the labor strikes in 1922. The SN is 937686.
I uploaded a picture. Hope it shows up.
Al
Finally got the picture to work, Thanks 1873man (Bob). Here’s a picture of my N&W. Rwy. Co. marked carbine.
This is more like what I would expect. I think the markings 3 times on the barrel of the rifle which led to the creation of this thread, as seen in the original post, is bogus. Do we all agree on this?
Although I agree that the C&P RR markings are bogus, the fact that the gun is marked 3 times has nothing to do with my thoughts on the matter. As I mentioned in a previous post, the fact that the markings are put on using individual letter stamps is the deciding factor for me.
Interesting responses……
But, if a field purchase, stamped at the point of purchase, I would expect the letters to be random, wouldn’t you ???
Not to hijack the thread, but I have some pics of a M92 with unknown stock and receiver stamps that were posted on another forum a few weeks ago. Would be happy to email the pics if someone would like to post them.
If you can’t convince them, confuse them
rikkn said
Interesting responses……
But, if a field purchase, stamped at the point of purchase, I would expect the letters to be random, wouldn’t you ???
Maybe. But it seems more likely that it would be taken to the nearest railroad shops and marked there with whatever marking tool the railroad would use to mark other portable items (picks, shovels, other tools).
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