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I know finish types come up from time to time and I saw this reprint of a 1939 article in the ASSRA magazine Jan/Feb 2023. I only gleaned the description about the American Gas and Furnace Co from around 1900. Thought some of you might like to see it.
Carbonia is a deep black lustrous gunmetal finish which can be applied to all ferrous metal parts by a combination of heating oxidizing and carbon impregnating, not carburizing. This impregnation produces a finish which may be glossy black or a dull deep black matt depending on whether the work is highly polished or sandblasted prior to its application.
Advantage of of Carbonia Bluing
1.In many applications, carbonia finish is superior to plating, enameling, lacquering, or painting because of its economy durability and rich appearance. It can be applied to many articles in bulk at minimum cost by its nature.
2.This finish penetrates to the bottom of the deepest the holes and notches in the work and does not chip or flake off. By its nature, the finish penetrates to the bottom of the deepest holes and notches in the work and does not chip ball or flake off.
3.It is rust resistant to a high degree for it stands up under continued cleaning with polishing cloths, in fact becomes more pleasing and improves appearance under such treatment. Tipping and carbonia finish combined.
5.Carbonia finish can be applied to oily work as it comes directly from hardening operations provided only that the surfaces are clean and scale-free.
6.It is not necessary to wash or decrease the work in order to prepare it for this finish after oil clenching. Six the work is tempered and given a carbonia finish simultaneously thus eliminating one step in the production process of many products with a consequent reduction in the cost of manufacture.
7.Several special features of the American rotary heating machine used in producing this finish result in exceptional uniformity of both temper and finish. Origin of the carbonia finish and the inherent advantage of gunmetal finish have been fully developed in the carbonia process with features that make it particularly economical.
It was originated by the American gas furnace company more than 35 years ago at the time when gunmetal finished was secured by treating the work and saltpeter and polishing with ocher as this was unsatisfactory, because deep down in the blind holes of the work so remained and despite careful and repeated washings thus causing rusting and corrosion. At that time a gun manufacturer tested some carbonia finish samples in competition with those treated by their old process keeping them in a damp cloth for an extended period of time. At the conclusion of this test the parts treated by the carbonia process showed up so favorably that the manufacturer accepted the new finish and it was then endorsed by arms manufacturers throughout the country and including the US government arsenals how the finish is applied the following data on the technique of applying Carbonia finish and oil blackening are extracted from a more complete discussion of the subject in the 1939 edition of the ASM handbook page 1120. To apply the finish, the work is placed in a retort with a small amount of charred bone and heated to 7 to 800° f. After the articles are thoroughly oxidized the temperatures dropped to about 650° and a mix of bone and carbonia oil are added. Heating is continued for several hours. When the work comes from the retort it is a dull gray black and by dipping in sperm oil or tumbling in oily cork, a uniform black finish is secured. Temperatures as low as 500 degrees can be used if high temperatures result in drying the temper too much, for example on certain springs. However this lower temperature requires longer time to color the Articles and the color is not as long lasting. Carbonia finish may be applied to articles which have been nitrited resulting in a pleasing finish resistant to rusting and retaining the surface hardness on the article since these coloring temperatures do not temper the nitrated articles.
Instructions for mixing carbonia oil in 110 gallon lots.
step #1pour a 55 gallon drum of pine tar into the tank.
Step #2 into the tank, pour 55 gallon drum of Cylesson. (still haven’t figured out what this is??.)
Step #3 light gas burner under tank adjust to medium flame.
Step #4, move gas burner around approximately every 2 hours to prevent oil from burning.
Step #5, now stir mixture every hour to prevent burning.
Step #6, let mixture cook for about 5 hours, draw oil into drums while mixture is hot not cold
Going to try and add a picture.
Thanks for posting this, as this is the first photo of the rotating ovens I’ve seen. In another discussion of the process, someone who appeared to know what he was talking about said that the color produced on the steel was a temper blue, the main purpose of the charcoal & oil being to exclude oxygen from the chamber by converting it to carbon dioxide. That explanation is somewhat at odds with these statements: “Carbonia…is a combination of heating oxidizing and carbon impregnating, not carburizing.” “6. The work is tempered and given a carbonia finish simultaneously…” What I’d like to hear is a metallurgist’s explanation of the chemical processes at work in the oven.
Thank you very much for taking the time to post this article. It somewhat deepens the mystery because I thought Carbonia was a tradename for a proprietary product obtaiable only through American Gas Furnace. And that pine tar was a cheaper substitute for sperm whale oil. Cylesson sounds a lot like Smith & Wesson. I wonder if this is not Doug Wesson’s version of the Carbonia oil for which Colt had an exclusive contract? Hence the lower case carbonia.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
I wonder if this is not Doug Wesson’s version of the Carbonia oil for which Colt had an exclusive contract? Zebulon said
Surprised the maker of the oil would give an exclusive contract to any single concern, thereby loosing the business of all the others, inc the largest of all, Win.
According to the formula above, pine tar + Cylesson = carbonia oil.
For my own clarty and forgive me if this seems like a stupid question. What exactly is “Cylesson”?
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick said
For my own clarty and forgive me if this seems like a stupid question. What exactly is “Cylesson”?
An unknown proprietary chemical. Whatever it is, it’s not essential to the process.
November 7, 2015
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This has been a fascinating thread. Never knew there were so many different “bluing techniques”. I knew about hot blue used by modern gunsmiths and a little about rust blue and have used a bit of chemical cold blue and brown. As many of you know (and will hopefully correct me) what we call “bluing” actually took place in the “browning” department at Winchester. I saw my reference library today but had no time to do any research or provide references. Maybe after Mark Douglas figures out the wonderful world of CCH he can educate us on bluing. Only problem is I feel pretty sure the craftsmen who developed the finishes on the guns we love developed it over many years and many of their techniques and formulae were not recorded and likely changed with atmospheric conditions. We may never know what Cylesson was or what other processes were involved.
Mike
As many of you know (and will hopefully correct me) what we call “bluing” actually took place in the “browning” department at Winchester. TXGunNut said
That’s the term also used in Ordnance manuals until about WW I, even though bluing was the standard finish after the CW. Kind of like the way I still call the kitchen appliance used to keep food cool an “ice box.”
clarence said That’s the term also used in Ordnance manuals until about WW I, even though bluing was the standard finish after the CW. Kind of like the way I still call the kitchen appliance used to keep food cool an “ice box.”
I’d be careful with use of “terms” of that of the US Ordnance VS that of the Winchester Factory. They’re often not always the same terms used or have the same meaning.
TXGunNut said
As many of you know (and will hopefully correct me) what we call “bluing” actually took place in the “browning” department at Winchester.
Well, not to split hairs but I think in a way you may have to be very specific. Not only in terms used but when they were used (time period) and even by who. So if I simply look at terms used by the factory, they had both a “Bluing” and “Browning” department, sort of speak.
There is a building list that as of yet I’ve been able to only date around pre-1900 to early 1900 that shows both a “Bluing and Browning Room”. On different floors of different buildings.
Then there is a building list that dates approx. post 1906 that shows a “Barrel Browning” &”Bluing” with a Mr. Maguire as foreman and a “Nitro Bluing” with a Mr. Chadwick as foreman. In 1906, Winchester changed their building numbering system. This is per some of my on-going research. One problem is that they did this more than once and even possibly did so before 1906. But I believe before 1906 they used merely numbers and not alphabetical suffixes. After 1906, I believe they started labeling things by “Tract”. But then later may have used the term ‘Group’. So it just keeps adding to my confusion.
Only problem is I feel pretty sure the craftsmen who developed the finishes on the guns we love developed it over many years and many of their techniques and formulae were not recorded and likely changed with atmospheric conditions. We may never know what Cylesson was or what other processes were involved.
Mike
It maybe lost today, but at one time Winchester would have had it written down in a very detailed nature. If I recall someone on the Forum previously mentioned that Winchester had a Summer and Winter Formula for the bluing used.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick said
clarence said That’s the term also used in Ordnance manuals until about WW I, even though bluing was the standard finish after the CW. Kind of like the way I still call the kitchen appliance used to keep food cool an “ice box.”
I’d be careful with use of “terms” of that of the US Ordnance VS that of the Winchester Factory. They’re often not always the same terms used or have the same meaning.
I don’t think there’s any confusion; while Winchester’s Damascus-brl shotguns actually were browned, no Springfield Armory arms were browned after the M 1841 Rifle was adopted, though “browning” continued to be the only terminology used in Ordnance manuals. (Harper’s Ferry may have continued true browning somewhat longer.) Most of SA’s percussion arms were finished bright, why, I’d like to know; to speed production?
The 1874 ed of “Rules for the Management” of the M 1873 includes instructions for “browning” outside the Armory, but the result would have been what we now call “rust bluing,” using dilute muriatic acid.
November 7, 2015
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Thanks, Maverick. That helps clear up my confusion somewhat. It seems 1906 was an eventful year, I seem to recall it being mentioned several times in MS20 documents and was not able to pinpoint why it was significant.
Mike
I dug up this from a Winchester glossary book.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
Rather amazing that as late as 1944, the obsolete use of “browning” persisted…though by that time even the browned Damascus shotguns brls formerly available were long gone.
November 7, 2015
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clarence said
1873man said
Rather amazing that as late as 1944, the obsolete use of “browning” persisted…though by that time even the browned Damascus shotguns brls formerly available were long gone.
I think “browning” did not have the same meaning to the craftsmen of this era as it does to many of us today. Maybe “browning” denotes oxidation and “bluing” denotes a chemical process. Or maybe I don’t understand but I’m still fascinated.
Mike
I should add how I found the Oxidized definition
Bob
Here is Dulite
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
TXGunNut said
clarence said
Rather amazing that as late as 1944, the obsolete use of “browning” persisted…though by that time even the browned Damascus shotguns brls formerly available were long gone.
I think “browning” did not have the same meaning to the craftsmen of this era as it does to many of us today. Maybe “browning” denotes oxidation and “bluing” denotes a chemical process. Or maybe I don’t understand but I’m still fascinated.
If the era you mean is the date of this document (which seems to me composed for some special ad hoc purpose), that’s not consistent with gunsmithing books published as early as Whelen’s Amateur Gunsmithing of 1924, & the later ones I have, all of which make a clear distinction between blueing & browning. Ned Robert’s Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle contains the best description of browning I’ve read, since it continued in use by makers of these rifles long after bluing was the norm in factories. He & others emphasize that the browning process works best on iron & soft steel, not so well on higher-carbon steel. Both blueing & browning begin the same way with use of an acid to accelerate oxidation, or rusting, of the steel. It’s the additional chemicals added to bluing solutions (every book has a dozen of them) that make the difference in the final result, not that I understand how or why.
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