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July 30, 2022 - 7:56 pm
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For those of you who might be interested, buyer beware!  This rifle was originally a 32-40 with a 26″ octagon barrel and a 1/2 magazine.  It now appears as a 30 WCF with a matted barrel and Full mag.

Special Order Winchester Semi-Deluxe Model 1894 Rifle | Rock Island Auction

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July 30, 2022 - 10:59 pm
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No record of an R&R?  That could explain the modifications.  Do you believe the matting & re-stocking is factory work, as RI claims?

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July 31, 2022 - 12:55 am
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clarence said
No record of an R&R?  That could explain the modifications.  Do you believe the matting & re-stocking is factory work, as RI claims?

  

I surveyed this rifle approximately 10-years ago… and at that time it was a 32-40.  It is not possible that it was modified on an R&R to its current configuration.  No. I do not believe anything RIA claims about its current configuration is accurate.

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July 31, 2022 - 4:05 am
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Bert,

Just curious to know, 10 Years ago was the rear end, receiver & buttstock, in the same condition it is today?

 

I find it very odd that they describe a stock assembly number mark being “Penciled Out” as an acceptable practice by Winchester.

You think someone aught to tell them that wouldn’t cut the mustard. 

Sincerely,

Maverick

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July 31, 2022 - 4:55 am
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Maverick said
Bert,

Just curious to know, 10 Years ago was the rear end, receiver & buttstock, in the same condition it is today?

I find it very odd that they describe a stock assembly number mark being “Penciled Out” as an acceptable practice by Winchester.

You think someone aught to tell them that wouldn’t cut the mustard. 

Sincerely,

Maverick  

In answer to your question, Yes it was, and the front end (barrel assembly) matched the rear half of the rifle.

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July 31, 2022 - 10:54 am
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Good catch. Is it possible to see the modern rework by eye? If not then RIA is off the hook at least a little. Appears very nice in the ad pictures and without Bert’s database it might be difficult to tell. 

Also I did not see where RIA said the penciled out numbers were “Acceptable Practice”, they just said it was so, each collector to decide for themselves. 

I have nothing to do with RIA and see lots of mistakes in their other ads as well. 

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July 31, 2022 - 1:46 pm
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Most surprising thing to me is that “someone” perpetrated this fakery on a gun which in its original state was a highly desirable configuration.  In fact, much as I admire a matted brl, I’d prefer the original caliber & mag tube to this fake.  Was the original brl in very poor condition, or messed up in some other way?  

Hope it’s Bert’s intention to notify RI of this fraud.  Present owner, if unaware of the fakery, should take legal action against whomever sold it to him.

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July 31, 2022 - 2:46 pm
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clarence said
Most surprising thing to me is that “someone” perpetrated this fakery on a gun which in its original state was a highly desirable configuration.  In fact, much as I admire a matted brl, I’d prefer the original caliber & mag tube to this fake.  Was the original brl in very poor condition, or messed up in some other way?  

Hope it’s Bert’s intention to notify RI of this fraud.  Present owner, if unaware of the fakery, should take legal action against whomever sold it to him.

  

The buyer would be assuming they are getting this.

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July 31, 2022 - 4:33 pm
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clarence said
Most surprising thing to me is that “someone” perpetrated this fakery on a gun which in its original state was a highly desirable configuration.  In fact, much as I admire a matted brl, I’d prefer the original caliber & mag tube to this fake.  Was the original brl in very poor condition, or messed up in some other way?  

Hope it’s Bert’s intention to notify RI of this fraud.  Present owner, if unaware of the fakery, should take legal action against whomever sold it to him.

  

No it was not… in fact, it was in very nice condition.  I suspect that it was used to “enhance” a different Model 1894 Fancy Take Down rifle.

It is almost a useless endeavor to notify RIA.  I have attempted to inform them of similar guns several times in the past only to be met with great skepticism and disdain.

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July 31, 2022 - 5:53 pm
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Bert H. said
It is almost a useless endeavor to notify RIA.  I have attempted to inform them of similar guns several times in the past only to be met with great skepticism and disdain.

  

Confirms my skepticism and disdain for this & all other auction racketeers.  Ethics & auctioneering mix like oil & water.  Worst of it is not that some fat cat gets ripped-off; frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn.  But it’s a crying shame that an original Winchester in an unusual configuration has been turned into a parts gun to boost some crook’s profit margin.

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July 31, 2022 - 6:50 pm
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I’d like to weight in here and ask, did RIA switch the barrels…? I would be inclined to say no, most likely the consigner is the ass that did it or someone before him. They are only going to try to sell what is thrown on their counter, what do they care? Ya I know they will occasionally pull a letter or sns from Cody as it gives a feel good picture for the sale. BUT the thing that bothers me is the fact they would not give Burt the right time of day on this.Shame on them , But what do they care they don’t work for the buyers, even thought they stick it up the poop shute with the juice , their job is to sell YOUR GUN, period. One more reason I like to see some provenance on a gun, just like fine art, to easy to fake. Especially guns out side the letter able range. So now that I’m done with my rant, I shall email them also and say my piece, wont go far but if more of us did that maybe something will happen… for the good. No one likes getting taken on a deal but sitting here and not doing anything when the real info is in front of our faces  is not helping either!

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July 31, 2022 - 6:54 pm
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Ps, Burt thanks for again for all your effort in the world of Winchester collecting. I actually looked at this rifle and had considered bidding. not now!!!!!!!!

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July 31, 2022 - 7:07 pm
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Well just notified RIA about this 1894. Guessing I wont get much help from them. Probably will close my account too. Oh well, As Col. Ludlow said” screw em.”

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July 31, 2022 - 7:10 pm
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I had a conversation with RIA about a gun that was not correct.  The person on the phone agreed the gun was not as listed but no one corrected their error.  Gun dealers are in the business of selling guns.  Often by what ever means are required. 

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July 31, 2022 - 7:26 pm
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Chuck said
I had a conversation with RIA about a gun that was not correct.  The person on the phone agreed the gun was not as listed but no one corrected their error.  Gun dealers are in the business of selling guns.  Often by what ever means are required. 

  

Well they are just customer service folks there to assist you, IE make you feel good. It’s just like my endeavors with Morphy about an 1886 I bought back a bit ago. Trying my damdest to try to get them to help me research the origin of the gun and they just yup me to death.. They say they care about the preservation of fine arms… HAHAHA $$$$$$ is the answer here.  

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July 31, 2022 - 7:52 pm
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oldcrankyyankee said Well they are just customer service folks there to assist you, IE make you feel good.  

Esp. in this case, RI went far beyond the role of serving merely as middleman between seller & buyer.  They might have said  “gun appears to be correct,” but instead bent over backwards to “prove” its originality with those statements about return to the factory for restocking, etc., for which no evidence whatever (like an R&R notation) exists.  They are actively promoting the scam.

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July 31, 2022 - 8:14 pm
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Anyone notice how many times they mention “factory refinishing” in the description? Restruck proof mark, the barrel matte.Did they carbon date the pencil marking in the stock inlet? B.S. !!!! Sell sell sell, condition condition condition! I like provenance from a know collector.

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