Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 11668
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
July 30, 2022 - 7:56 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

For those of you who might be interested, buyer beware!  This rifle was originally a 32-40 with a 26″ octagon barrel and a 1/2 magazine.  It now appears as a 30 WCF with a matted barrel and Full mag.

Special Order Winchester Semi-Deluxe Model 1894 Rifle | Rock Island Auction

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
July 30, 2022 - 10:59 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

No record of an R&R?  That could explain the modifications.  Do you believe the matting & re-stocking is factory work, as RI claims?

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 11668
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
July 31, 2022 - 12:55 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

clarence said
No record of an R&R?  That could explain the modifications.  Do you believe the matting & re-stocking is factory work, as RI claims?

  

I surveyed this rifle approximately 10-years ago… and at that time it was a 32-40.  It is not possible that it was modified on an R&R to its current configuration.  No. I do not believe anything RIA claims about its current configuration is accurate.

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1739
Member Since:
May 23, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
July 31, 2022 - 4:05 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert,

Just curious to know, 10 Years ago was the rear end, receiver & buttstock, in the same condition it is today?

 

I find it very odd that they describe a stock assembly number mark being “Penciled Out” as an acceptable practice by Winchester.

You think someone aught to tell them that wouldn’t cut the mustard. 

Sincerely,

Maverick

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 11668
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
July 31, 2022 - 4:55 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Maverick said
Bert,

Just curious to know, 10 Years ago was the rear end, receiver & buttstock, in the same condition it is today?

I find it very odd that they describe a stock assembly number mark being “Penciled Out” as an acceptable practice by Winchester.

You think someone aught to tell them that wouldn’t cut the mustard. 

Sincerely,

Maverick  

In answer to your question, Yes it was, and the front end (barrel assembly) matched the rear half of the rifle.

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 267
Member Since:
November 17, 2011
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
6
July 31, 2022 - 10:54 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Good catch. Is it possible to see the modern rework by eye? If not then RIA is off the hook at least a little. Appears very nice in the ad pictures and without Bert’s database it might be difficult to tell. 

Also I did not see where RIA said the penciled out numbers were “Acceptable Practice”, they just said it was so, each collector to decide for themselves. 

I have nothing to do with RIA and see lots of mistakes in their other ads as well. 

Avatar
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
July 31, 2022 - 1:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Most surprising thing to me is that “someone” perpetrated this fakery on a gun which in its original state was a highly desirable configuration.  In fact, much as I admire a matted brl, I’d prefer the original caliber & mag tube to this fake.  Was the original brl in very poor condition, or messed up in some other way?  

Hope it’s Bert’s intention to notify RI of this fraud.  Present owner, if unaware of the fakery, should take legal action against whomever sold it to him.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4691
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
July 31, 2022 - 2:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

clarence said
Most surprising thing to me is that “someone” perpetrated this fakery on a gun which in its original state was a highly desirable configuration.  In fact, much as I admire a matted brl, I’d prefer the original caliber & mag tube to this fake.  Was the original brl in very poor condition, or messed up in some other way?  

Hope it’s Bert’s intention to notify RI of this fraud.  Present owner, if unaware of the fakery, should take legal action against whomever sold it to him.

  

The buyer would be assuming they are getting this.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 11668
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
July 31, 2022 - 4:33 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

clarence said
Most surprising thing to me is that “someone” perpetrated this fakery on a gun which in its original state was a highly desirable configuration.  In fact, much as I admire a matted brl, I’d prefer the original caliber & mag tube to this fake.  Was the original brl in very poor condition, or messed up in some other way?  

Hope it’s Bert’s intention to notify RI of this fraud.  Present owner, if unaware of the fakery, should take legal action against whomever sold it to him.

  

No it was not… in fact, it was in very nice condition.  I suspect that it was used to “enhance” a different Model 1894 Fancy Take Down rifle.

It is almost a useless endeavor to notify RIA.  I have attempted to inform them of similar guns several times in the past only to be met with great skepticism and disdain.

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
July 31, 2022 - 5:53 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said
It is almost a useless endeavor to notify RIA.  I have attempted to inform them of similar guns several times in the past only to be met with great skepticism and disdain.

  

Confirms my skepticism and disdain for this & all other auction racketeers.  Ethics & auctioneering mix like oil & water.  Worst of it is not that some fat cat gets ripped-off; frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn.  But it’s a crying shame that an original Winchester in an unusual configuration has been turned into a parts gun to boost some crook’s profit margin.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 738
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
July 31, 2022 - 6:50 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I’d like to weight in here and ask, did RIA switch the barrels…? I would be inclined to say no, most likely the consigner is the ass that did it or someone before him. They are only going to try to sell what is thrown on their counter, what do they care? Ya I know they will occasionally pull a letter or sns from Cody as it gives a feel good picture for the sale. BUT the thing that bothers me is the fact they would not give Burt the right time of day on this.Shame on them , But what do they care they don’t work for the buyers, even thought they stick it up the poop shute with the juice , their job is to sell YOUR GUN, period. One more reason I like to see some provenance on a gun, just like fine art, to easy to fake. Especially guns out side the letter able range. So now that I’m done with my rant, I shall email them also and say my piece, wont go far but if more of us did that maybe something will happen… for the good. No one likes getting taken on a deal but sitting here and not doing anything when the real info is in front of our faces  is not helping either!

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 738
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
July 31, 2022 - 6:54 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Ps, Burt thanks for again for all your effort in the world of Winchester collecting. I actually looked at this rifle and had considered bidding. not now!!!!!!!!

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 738
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
July 31, 2022 - 7:07 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Well just notified RIA about this 1894. Guessing I wont get much help from them. Probably will close my account too. Oh well, As Col. Ludlow said” screw em.”

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5037
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
July 31, 2022 - 7:10 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I had a conversation with RIA about a gun that was not correct.  The person on the phone agreed the gun was not as listed but no one corrected their error.  Gun dealers are in the business of selling guns.  Often by what ever means are required. 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 738
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
July 31, 2022 - 7:26 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Chuck said
I had a conversation with RIA about a gun that was not correct.  The person on the phone agreed the gun was not as listed but no one corrected their error.  Gun dealers are in the business of selling guns.  Often by what ever means are required. 

  

Well they are just customer service folks there to assist you, IE make you feel good. It’s just like my endeavors with Morphy about an 1886 I bought back a bit ago. Trying my damdest to try to get them to help me research the origin of the gun and they just yup me to death.. They say they care about the preservation of fine arms… HAHAHA $$$$$$ is the answer here.  

Avatar
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
July 31, 2022 - 7:52 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

oldcrankyyankee said Well they are just customer service folks there to assist you, IE make you feel good.  

Esp. in this case, RI went far beyond the role of serving merely as middleman between seller & buyer.  They might have said  “gun appears to be correct,” but instead bent over backwards to “prove” its originality with those statements about return to the factory for restocking, etc., for which no evidence whatever (like an R&R notation) exists.  They are actively promoting the scam.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 738
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
July 31, 2022 - 8:14 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Anyone notice how many times they mention “factory refinishing” in the description? Restruck proof mark, the barrel matte.Did they carbon date the pencil marking in the stock inlet? B.S. !!!! Sell sell sell, condition condition condition! I like provenance from a know collector.

Avatar
Kim Duerr
Guest
WACA Guest
18
October 29, 2022 - 12:56 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Hello Bert.

My step-dad has a 94 win that is very old with some unusual lettering on the receiver. Can you help us decipher the meaning of the stamped “VAFC” on receiver left side. Serial # 564xxx. Thanks

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 11668
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
October 29, 2022 - 6:06 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Kim Duerr said
Hello Bert.

My step-dad has a 94 win that is very old with some unusual lettering on the receiver. Can you help us decipher the meaning of the stamped “VAFC” on receiver left side. Serial # 564xxx. Thanks

  

Kim,

Please send pictures of the gun and the markings that are on it to me at – [email protected]

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Online: gobblerforge, cjs57, Tony. R, Antonio, tsbccut, John D.
Guest(s) 58
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 7119
TXGunNut: 5635
Chuck: 5037
steve004: 4691
1873man: 4494
Big Larry: 2452
twobit: 2357
mrcvs: 1973
TR: 1796
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 18
Topics: 13552
Posts: 119702

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1909
Members: 9314
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation