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I purchased a book last week by John Taylor titled Fine Shotguns. On page 113 under Finishes he stated that “many contemporary gunsmiths apply a thin layer of fiberglass bedding to the breech-contact areas of their stocks” to protect the stock from the incursion of oil and water and all the problems they will cause. He also says that even the preferred Rangoon Oil that was used on very high end British and European shotguns eventually caused oil damage to these highly prized firearms.
I’ve been pondering this and other statements in the book and wondering if there were ever any long term studies done on some of the oils touted on the forum, or if in ten or fifteen years the stocks on some of our Winchesters will start having noticeable oil leaching damage. Is a preventative measure like the thin coat of bedding compound looked down on by the collecting community?
I was just looking for your thoughts on the preserving of these beauties. 🙄
Gene
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Are talking about doing this to a rifle or shotgun. Rifle collectors have a different standard of keeping their guns original than shotgun guys. If I find some kind of gunk under the forearm of a rifle were it should of been no finish, I will figure the wood was refinished and it hurts the value of the gun. Most gun oils will darken wood. Bert says Snake Oil will not darken wood if I remember correctly, but its not a oil for the insides, its for external care.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Yes anything done to the rifle what was not factory work will be lookde down on by collectors of American arms.
The European collector community views restorations slightly differently, it’s not unususal to have a high priced European or British double gun that has been restored and or refurbished. Across the pond, firearms were seen as tools to be used, putting the barrels back on face, reblacking the barrels, recut engraving re-case hardening etc was considered normal maintenance.
I like Clenzoil or Snake oil, so far no issues
V/R
Mike
Question for you Mike:
I bought a high grade English 12 bore a few years ago.
The guy maintained his fine European shotguns with a rag soaked with sperm whale oil?
Amazing stuff and feel to it; really kept his guns looking nice.
I’d never seen anything like it.
He had a MacNaughton double that was the finest double I’ve ever seen, bar none.
Said the oil was real, not synthetic and very expensive.
Is it legally available?
If your a native Eskimo you might be able to get it but for the rest of us it will difficult. I read differing opinions from its illegal to own to you can buy and sell pre banned oil just like ivory.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
As 73 already noted; sperm whale oil is no longer legally available. Whale oil used to be easily obtainable up to the 70s, Brownells even carried it, but I’m not 100% sure it’s legal to own today. A few years ago there was a story about a guy that tried to sell some “pre ban” oil on Ebay, the feds came down on him for violating the endangered marine species act or some such.
Don’t think there is anything too mythical or magical about whale oil, it had a fairly broad operating range and tended not to gum up, and that’s about it. Modern science has given us that and more.
Clenzoil is very popular with the high end double crowd. That group generally has no issue going pheasant hunting with a $150,000 double, Clenzoil also smells good, so worse case you can use it as a cologne.
At the shows I see some very expensive collections protected with Old West Snake Oil; they have a significant investment and have a lot at risk if it doesn’t work.
Personally, I would stay away from motor oil, WD 40, or anything with silicone in it.
V/R
Mike
Mike Hunter said
As 73 already noted; sperm whale oil is no longer legally available. Whale oil used to be easily obtainable up to the 70s, Brownells even carried it, but I’m not 100% sure it’s legal to own today. A few years ago there was a story about a guy that tried to sell some “pre ban” oil on Ebay, the feds came down on him for violating the endangered marine species act or some such.Don’t think there is anything too mythical or magical about whale oil, it had a fairly broad operating range and tended not to gum up, and that’s about it. Modern science has given us that and more.
Clenzoil is very popular with the high end double crowd. That group generally has no issue going pheasant hunting with a $150,000 double, Clenzoil also smells good, so worse case you can use it as a cologne.
At the shows I see some very expensive collections protected with Old West Snake Oil; they have a significant investment and have a lot at risk if it doesn’t work.
Personally, I would stay away from motor oil, WD 40, or anything with silicone in it.
V/R
Mike
Just as a side note WD40 was originally fish oil. Not sure if it still is .
Wayne
That is what I heard about WD40 is its fish oil with a perfume added.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Mike Hunter said
Personally, I would stay away from motor oil, WD 40, or anything with silicone in it.
V/R
Mike
To add to that I would stay away from anything that has lemon oil, its hard on case colors.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
"the preferred Rangoon Oil"
Rangoon oil is what the British military used in the oilers that were in the butts of the Lee enfield rifles
There has been some discussion (on the Lee Enfield Forums)about just what Rangoon oil might be and the consensus is that it was standard motor oil
Did a little research on Rangoon oil a few years back, when I was doing restoration work on British doubles.
Rangoon oil was produced by the Rangoon Oil Company; a British company that was drilling oil in Burma. I strongly suspect at the time Rangoon oil was nothing more than a light unrefined crude oil. Keep in mind that there wasn’t a whole lot of oil refining or distilling going on in the 1850s so petroleum products were pretty crude (no pun intended).
Prior to the use of petroleum products to protect metal surfaces, folks primarily relied on tallow (beef fat) or lard (pork fat).
If you want some it’s available, doubt it’s the same as the 1850s variant:
http://www.tamarfieldandstream.co.uk/products/shooting/cleaning-accessories/gun-oils/rangoon-oil/359
Enjoy
Mike
http://www.hollandandholland.com/product_single.php?i=83
According to this shotgun book the Brits used whale oil and Rangoon oil on their high end guns but it didn’t matter, they still got seepage deterioration where the metal and wood came together. He says they mostly use newer treatments now.
I did a short experiment with three small pieces of wood and #2 snake oil. Two different pines and black walnut were used. I applied a liberal amount of the oil to the end grain of one side and within an hour and a half it was penetrating through them all. After four hours the oil was fully penetrated through them all.
http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/cardiacharp/media/GENE-DESKTOP/4f8c0b25-84a5-4544-b298-201c0d0a2568_zps4b68c60c.jpg.html
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The top two are the top and bottom at 1 1/2 hr., the third at fourth are after about four hr. I didn’t put any oil on the sides or bottom of the wood. I broke them to see the inside and as you can see, full penetration. The last picture is the bottom before I broke them. Begs the question, what will they look like five or ten years down the road, or a hundred? 😯
Your thoughts?
Gene
I assume anything that is in a liquid state can be absorbed by wood. I Bought a 73 a few years ago that had old dried out wood with no finish so I used snake oil, I applied it heavy and repeated application several times a hour apart then let it dry. It did a nice job of giving the wood a darker old finish look.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Gene61, Did you try this on some regular store bought 2×4 from lowe’s? Or did you try this on a scrap piece of an original winchester gunstock?
You may very well could and probably would get different results between the two. Modern treated lumber has chemicals injected into it that I’m certain winchester stocks wouldn’t have. Also I believe the drying process used is different. Also I imagine the "Species" of the wood would make a difference.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
1873man, when you were a kid did you ever do that celery and colored water experiment? You know, the one were you put the celery in the glass of colored water and observe the capillary action in the celery as the colored water moves through it. The exterior of the celery is unaffected. It’s the same thing here. The open end grain is were the deep penetration occurs and thus is the most susceptible to long term damage. The other place I could see it happening would be a fancy stock with some of those small cracks in the burl on the flats and thus opening the stock to oil infiltration in those areas. That’s probably why the ones that don’t have them look so damn good.
Maverick, the wood I used was just some scrap pieces from my work shop. The black walnut however was from an at least ten year air dried 1 ½” thick plank that I had used to make a stock. This is most likely similar to what Winchester used back in the day.
I live in the N. E. hardwood forest area of the U.S. were the black walnut was harvested. I tried to use pieces with as straight a grain as possible so the sides would be affected as little as possible. This morning, unlike the fourth picture there is no “dry” area on the bottom of the walnut and the oil is leaching through and darkening the sides of the piece. 
Gene
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