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Recently had a discussion over a few beers where the topic turned to Winchester’s “outside contractors. Think there is some misinformation about Winchester using outside contractors to supply and finish parts.
Here is where I believe folks get confused about “outside contractors” and the contractor relationship that Winchester utilized.
Winchester directly employed about a dozen foreman/department heads in the manufacturing area; these foreman were assigned parts to produce, and were responsible for these parts from start to finish.
As was a very common labor practice at the time, these foremen hired/fired and paid the workmen to manufacture the components of Winchester rifles. These workmen worked in the Winchester factory, on Winchester provided machinery using Winchester designed fixtures; Winchester supplied formulas/solutions and even purchased the required expendable tooling (milling cutters, drill bits) from Winchester. Yet, these workmen were considered “contractors” as they worked for the foreman and not Winchester….but again all work was done within the confines of the Winchester plant.
Winchester was very specific about the finishes, each part had to be finished according to very specific directions, a couple of examples: the 1873 finger lever catch pin: “Niter blue 780 deg for 10 minutes”, yet the 1873 hammer stirrup pin was Nitre blued at 810 deg for 4 minutes. Two obscure little pins hidden within the frame, yet each had very unique and precise finishing requirement.
On rust bluing, Winchester had two different formulations; one for summer and a slightly stronger solution for winter, when steel tends not to rust as rapidly.
The only items that I have positively identified as supplied by outside vendors are the rubber grip caps and hard rubber buttplates. All other parts were manufactured “in house” by Winchester. The sights I have not researched yet.
Wood finishes as well as stains were supplied to Winchester by an outside contractor the Lawrence –McFadden Company.
Steve
The data that I have dtd 1899-1903 shows the sling swivels being manufactured in house as well.
Whats the date on your info?
V/R
Mike
Mike, I was referring to the slings themselves, not the swivels. My bill of materials is 1945.
Steve
Mike
Thanks for the information.
The only items that I have positively identified as supplied by outside vendors are the rubber grip caps and hard rubber buttplates. All other parts were manufactured “in house” by Winchester. The sights I have not researched yet.
I’m curious about sight manufacture. I’ve heard the idea of gun sights being manufactured elsewhere a few times. I know a few guys who are convinced one company (contractor) must have made many of the sights for the various firearms manufacturers back then. Some things about it seem very logical. This theory also mentioned in chapter 11, 2nd paragraph in either of the Old Gunsights books. When you get to researching that I would be very interested in reading about what you find.
Brad
Brad
Obviously sights such as Marbles, Lyman were purchased from those manufacturers. Winchester manufactured their own sights. I’ve got six pages of sights and component parts of sights that Winchester manufactured, is there a particular sight that you’re interested in?
Mike
Frankly I’m interested in all rifle and carbine sights. I would be interested in seeing any pages you have if that’s possible. If it’s not I understand too.
You can send me an email at [email protected].
Maybe the idea of an outside (the Winchester plant) contractor like Lyman or someone making the Winchester sights too is just the result of guys like me speculating too much 
Thanks, Brad
FWIW, I have an original Farrow. Farrow manufactured his own tang sights (or had them made) but furnished his rifles with Winchester front globe sights with interchangeable inserts and a slide-in insert lock with an attached spirit level.
Mike,
I have a 1953 Winchester Model 94 with an outside vendor recoil pad. Is it possible the rifle left the factory that way. It appears to be factory installed.
Thanks,
Bill
Bill
I guess it’s possible but very unlikely, by the 50s Winchester was getting away from special order work, unless it went thru the custom shop.
V/R
Mike
Bill,
Who made the recoil pad on your Model 94?
Winchester listed and installed recoil pads made by No-Shoc, Silvers, and a few others, and did so through the 1950s.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Hi Bert,
Thanks for the reply. It is a Stoeger Arms Corp., NY and definitely from that era.
Thanks again,
Bill
Bill,
99.99% not factory installed.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Mike Hunter said
The only items that I have positively identified as supplied by outside vendors are the rubber grip caps and hard rubber buttplates. All other parts were manufactured “in house” by Winchester. The sights I have not researched yet.Wood finishes as well as stains were supplied to Winchester by an outside contractor the Lawrence –McFadden Company.
The only other area I know about that is kinda of sorta close is the production of Winchester Reloading tools. I have been researching Reloading Tools a lot recently as they have become my current fascination and I plan on hopefully writing a book on them.
In Yearout’s Monogram he speculates that the early 1874 & 1875 Tools and the 1st & 2nd type bullet molds may have been produced by Sharps and purchased and sold by Winchester. I have a different point of view on the matter and granted Yearout’s work was published over 30 years ago. Mr. Yearout being deceased can’t defend his own work and I can’t discuss his thoughts on the matter with him. But that said there seems to be evidence that Malleable Iron Fittings, Co. of Brandford, CT. supplied Winchester with the rough bronze castings for its early Molds and the 1874 & 1875 Tools. And may have even possibly casting for the 1880 Tool.
Even so its evident that Winchester cherried, milled, fitted and assembled the Molds & Tools in house. Then packaged up in factory labeled boxes and shipped them out in there own shipping department. I equate Winchester’s association with Malleable Iron Fittings, Co. as not being that much different from Winchester purchasing and receiving barrel steel to manufacture there gun barrels. So you might can delineate some connection to "Outside Contracting" here.
On another note, I am curious to know if the "Anson Mills woven cartridge Belt" was ever produced "In-House" by Winchester. I know that in 1880 Winchester became sole distributor of the Anson Mills Belt and that the cartridge boxes state "For convenience in carrying use ANSON MILLS WOVEN CARTRIDGE BELT".
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Thanks Bert,
I would have bet that it was. Good thing I didn’t.
Thanks again,
Bill
In general;
The reason for my original post is that for some reason many believe that the production of Winchester rifles was some type of cottage industry, where Winchester farmed out manufacturing and finishing to outside contractors.
This was not the case; Winchester was an extremely large company at the time with adequate resources. I equate it to the 19th Century version of Boeing.
When Winchester needed a machine for a particular job, they contracted directly with Pratt & Whitney to design and make a single purpose machine. If they needed a special steel, they talked directly to the steel mills, and the same goes for wood finishes where Winchester contracted with the Lawrence – Mc Fadden company; one of the largest wood finish producers at the time, to develop and provide stains and wood finishes to meet Winchester’s specifications.
Yes, Winchester relied on contractors to conduct many of the machining and finishing tasks, but they were in house contractors, working within the confines of the Winchester facility under direct control and supervision of Winchester. As I posted earlier, this was a very common management-labor arrangement during the period, and for all purposes related to the manufacture and finishing of Winchester rifles, these contractors were Winchester employees.
Maverick
The only hard data I have is on the 1894 reloading tools and bullet molds, of which all components were produced in house by Winchester. As to the Anson Mills woven cartridge Belt, I don’t have a clue.
V/R
Mike
So when did the contractor-foreman-Winchester arrangement change? Surely that did not continue into the 1960’s, or did it?
I suspect this relationship lasted thill the late teens, early twenties. Once Winchester became unionized it was all over.
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