Log In
Members
Home
Add Reply
Add Topic
Offline
I just tried to purchase the George Madis Winchester book which I believe is pretty much the bible for all things Winchester. Between ebay and Amazon the prices varied from $150 up to $600. I then stumbled on to the George Madis website which has them listed at $67.95. I spoke with Mrs Madis who informed me she is out of stock and was not impressed that lots of book sellers are hoarding the books. Any way she told me they are running another print run Oct 1 so hopefully a few weeks after that they will be available again on their website. Just a heads up thats all in case anyone else is looking for this book to purchase. I did buy the Handbook, the Era book & the Sight book which were available.
The first one I bought was The Winchester Handbook, signed first edition, from one of Mr. Madis’ nephews a few years ago. I probably should take better care of it but it seems like I always grab that one first. I ended up with the main Winchester Book similar to how you got your books.
Brad
Hello,
While the big brown book has been for years the "go-to" book please be aware that there is a significant amount of incorrect material and omissions in this text. Please use it with caution and as a guide only, not the biblical ‘Word of God’.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
I enjoy the book for what it is. It reminds me of when I first got interested in buying an old Winchester. It has an old gun writer quality to it too. There is something about the writing and pictures that just gives it some soul. Maybe it’s because it’s not all technical exactness. I wish I could have met the man that wrote it. I guess I can imagine following him around a gun show and telling me how this gun or that gun is special because of this or that feature. Some of these books are quite old. Would he have been willing to update his work had he the chance?
I would use just about anyone’s book on anything as a guide only.
I ripped into some inaccuracy or something in The Sight Book once on this forum and I regret that. I just don’t think it was necessary. I wish someone had told me that at the time.
Brad
When I first began my very modest collecting of old Winchesters, THE Winchester Book was the first book I got. I read all the chapters on the various lever guns, including every caption. I just about wore that book out. I am aware of some significant inaccuracies, but I still have it in my bookcase and have fond memories of the early days I started pouring through it.
Hedley Lamarr said
The first one I bought was The Winchester Handbook, signed first edition, from one of Mr. Madis’ nephews a few years ago. I probably should take better care of it but it seems like I always grab that one first. I ended up with the main Winchester Book similar to how you got your books.Brad
Brad,
I like his books too, and I grab the The Winchester Handbook mostly as well.
James
twobit said
Hello,While the big brown book has been for years the "go-to" book please be aware that there is a significant amount of incorrect material and omissions in this text. Please use it with caution and as a guide only, not the biblical ‘Word of God’.
Michael
AMEN! Lots of incorrect information there, unfortunately.
vicvanb said
AMEN! Lots of incorrect information there, unfortunately.
Other than some dates of manufacture on some models, I don’t see what you mean by "Lots of incorrect information". Would you care to elaborate?
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
vicvanb said
AMEN! Lots of incorrect information there, unfortunately.
Other than some dates of manufacture on some models, I don’t see what you mean by "Lots of incorrect information". Would you care to elaborate?
Sincerely,
Maverick
I will… the so called "rarity" tables at the end of each chapter are way off the mark as well. The counts of the various calibers for several models are way off the mark.
In regards to your statement "some dates of manufacture on some models", that is a sizeable understatement in my opinion.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I’m newer at this than many of you. I do know enough to know the books aren’t perfect or totally correct everywhere. I can enjoy them anyway. I personally have always tried to take what I thought were the best parts of anything I read and learn from them.
I think those books are a major part of the history of Winchester collecting. I believe I’m much better off having those books and reading them than not ever opening one.
Brad
vicvanb said
AMEN! Lots of incorrect information there, unfortunately.
Other than some dates of manufacture on some models, I don’t see what you mean by "Lots of incorrect information". Would you care to elaborate?
Sincerely,
Maverick
I will… the so called "rarity" tables at the end of each chapter are way off the mark as well. The counts of the various calibers for several models are way off the mark.
In regards to your statement "some dates of manufacture on some models", that is a sizeable understatement in my opinion.
Bert
Bert not to appear "dense" or try to pick on you or anyone else of this forum. But the more and more we discuss George’s so called errors, the more I find it to be pointless.
Please someone name one Gun Book or even to be more specific one Gun Book about Winchesters that is without error?
I do believe Bert, even you yourself admit to having errors in your own writings. Even with the modern advances with printing and publishing books, there are still errors.
While all contain errors, most gun books give valuable information. Even the very bad ones usually have some redeeming features. And yes there are some books out there that are completely worthless. But one should consult as many books as possible on the subject and cross-reference the information to see where the various authors agree and disagree.
Also I believe that just because something is written in a book doesn’t mean its correct either, as I’m sure most do. I find George’s works to give volumes of valuable information and believe them to have there own redeeming qualities.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
maverick said
Bert not to appear "dense" or try to pick on you or anyone else of this forum. But the more and more we discuss George’s so called errors, the more I find it to be pointless.Please someone name one Gun Book or even to be more specific one Gun Book about Winchesters that is without error?
I do believe Bert, even you yourself admit to having errors in your own writings. Even with the modern advances with printing and publishing books, there are still errors.
While all contain errors, most gun books give valuable information. Even the very bad ones usually have some redeeming features. And yes there are some books out there that are completely worthless. But one should consult as many books as possible on the subject and cross-reference the information to see where the various authors agree and disagree.
Also I believe that just because something is written in a book doesn’t mean its correct either, as I’m sure most do. I find George’s works to give volumes of valuable information and believe them to have there own redeeming qualities.
Sincerely,
Maverick
In regards to your first comment, I will agree with you with one caveat… First, they are not "so called errors". Just like the recent discussion about using the term "fake" to describe guns that are not authentic or original, information that has been proven to be erroneous is exactly that… erroneous.
There are a lot of people (collectors & dealers) that still quote the dates of manufacture and rarity tables that George asserted as being "Factual", and I am of the opinion that the true (factual) information should be presented to them in rebuttal. What truly baffles me are the people who seem to believe that George’s erroneous information should be eternally perpetuated and not questioned/challenged… that is a real mystery to me.
In regards to anything that I have published… I openly admit it when I do not have all of the information necessary to present a "fact". A perfect example are the many articles I have written with the extrapolated data tables in them.
What it all boils down to is this… George Madis was a super ambassador for the Winchester collecting community and the WACA orginazation. His books belong in any serious Winchester collector’s library (and they are in mine), but they must not be religiously or blindly quoted as the final answer to many questions. As the WACA website and forums continue to grow in the coming years, we will undoubtedly see the same questions and false assertions repeatedly posted. When that happens, we "old timers" on the forum should endeavor to educate (or re-educate) the newcomers using the more accurate information that is available to us.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
What it all boils down to is this… George Madis was a super ambassador for the Winchester collecting community and the WACA orginazation. His books belong in any serious Winchester collector’s library (and they are in mine), but they must not be religiously or blindly quoted as the final answer to many questions. As the WACA website and forums continue to grow in the coming years, we will undoubtedly see the same questions and false assertions repeatedly posted. When that happens, we "old timers" on the forum should endeavor to educate (or re-educate) the newcomers using the more accurate information that is available to us.
Hear, hear, well said!
You know what! Forget I said anything.
Very Respectfully
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick, NO, I won’t forget what you said. Because, I agree with you. But I agree with Bert, too. Information has come to light that changes data that George Madis used in the Winchester Book, but he paved the way for subsequent researchers. He undertook a monumental task at the time, before the day of the internet. There were obviously things he missed in his research of the records, but, he loved the guns. Visiting and corresponding with collectors by mail and telephone, and the photos taken and film developed, and travel to gun shows, etc., was time consuming and expensive. To him, it was a labor of love. I met George twice – once in Dallas, and again when he came to Mississippi to do some hunting and shooting. He was a walking encyclopedia on old Winchesters. Like he once said, if you wait until you have ALL the information, a book will never get published. I bought my Winchester Book in 1969, and it’ll always have a prominent place on my bookshelf. With the internet, we’re living in a different world. I’ve learned more, and seen more great Winchesters in the last two or three years online, than I saw in 20+ years of collecting. George Madis did us all a great service – he was the forerunner of today’s Winchester collectors. Let’s give him the credit due, and inform new collectors of errors and omissions in his work.
Yes , the Madis Big Book has without a doubt, has been the book that has been in my hands the most over the last 40 years and I still go for it every once in a while. I have spent many hours Daydreaming as I go thru it and it has fueled my fantasies, and when ever I thought I could not afford any more,somehow going through the book, would lessen my guilt , enabling me to justify indulging myself
The Quality binding has taken much abuse, and still is intact I wonder how many times it has fallen off the bed?
Though these days I guess I do most of my daydreaming in front of the computer. The internet with sites like this one is a real treat
Oakridge:
Well said. All Winchester collectors owe George a huge debt of thanks.
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
Rick Hill said
Oakridge:Well said. All Winchester collectors owe George a huge debt of thanks.
AMEN TO THAT !
I have a 1985 "1 of 1,000" signed edition. I never thought of it as having any resale value, just value to me, so I’ve read it front to back a few times and written in the margins, etc.
I’ve made the rarity table mistake before (corrected here, thank you) so now I just say "Madis’ book says . . ." rather than saying "Only X guns had X." I would say what the corrected information says, but I don’t have it.
Which brings up the next point: I’d like to see it re-done, with corrections. I’m lazy and don’t want to shop all the sources of information like some of you guys.
If they ever did redo it, I’d like to see really well done color photos with period props, etc. (no people since people these days don’t look like people back then; too soft, LOL!). I’d like to see so many photos that it had to come out in a twenty volume set. 😀
The American Dream, as stated by Abraham Lincoln and as proven by such people as Oliver F. Winchester and Samuel Colt: "There is not, of necessity, any such thing as a free hired laborer being fixed to that condition for life. The prudent, penniless beginner in the world labors for wages awhile; saves a surplus with which to buy tools or land for himself, then labors on his own account for another while, and at length hires another beginner to help him."
It was including things like that throughout The Winchester Book that I enjoy very much. I just spent awhile finding that nugget, having remembered it from the first time I had read it in the book. It was good to see a few of the the other little histories and stories are all still there.
Brad
1 Guest(s)
