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What are some of your secrets for spotting a reblue on an early ’94 ? Besides the obvious like letters and numbers buffed out or deep scratches or pits with blueing in them. Thanks for you input.
Search older posts and some excellent information has already been posted on what to look for. A lot of photos were posted with comments.
If it doesnt look right, it more than likely isnt. Will you make mistakes. Yes.
Ken,
The first and most obvious is the color is wrong. Most of the time the blue color will be too dark or more black. The next thing that gets the hair on the back of my neck standing up is blue that has no age to it. The other thing is irregularities in the surface from sanding by hand. You see that flat surfaces are not flat they look rippled. Rounded corners. When I see refinished wood I start looking at the metal since I don’t find original wood on refinished guns as a rule. The other thing is a bore that looks bad on a mint gun. I do see quite a few guns that are half restored. Someone will take a gun that has a nice receiver but the barrel had a problem and they have a replacement barrel made and they try to age it to match.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
One very good method I always liked was the use of a strong light, like a mag-light, shin it on any blued surface while looking thru a magnifying glass to the surface of the metal. Winchester ‘Rust-blued" the metal so with this method you should see the "brownish" color of the metal UNDER the bluing. Another "tell’ would be on the recvr. there’s usually longitudinal lines or striations that can be seen. In both instances it may take a bit of experience and/or someone along side you to point it out, but once you see it and recognize what your looking at it becomes easier.
Best regards,
Marty
marty said
One very good method I always liked was the use of a strong light, like a mag-light, shin it on any blued surface while looking thru a magnifying glass to the surface of the metal. Winchester ‘Rust-blued" the metal so with this method you should see the "brownish" color of the metal UNDER the bluing. Another "tell’ would be on the recvr. there’s usually longitudinal lines or striations that can be seen. In both instances it may take a bit of experience and/or someone along side you to point it out, but once you see it and recognize what your looking at it becomes easier.Best regards,
Marty
I’ve seen a 73 that someone faked the brownish color on the mag tube. The mag tube was a modern repo with no seam but they applied something that looked like rust and when you shined a bright light on it, it had that brown-red look like old blue had. The dealer himself showed me with his light and said "look thats old blue". When I took my fingernail and scraped it I saw solid blue under it.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Hi Bob,
The forgers get better and better don’t they! I still feel confident that fake rebluing can be detected, as well as other common fakery..UH…make that usually detected! 😕
And this just reinforces the fact that now-a-days you really have to be very well versed on these ole guns.
Marty
Best way is a long and expensive road but it works. Purchase a documented Winchester from a known honest dealer, a gun that all sources agree is correct. Use that gun as a reference gun, refer back to it on every other gun you see until the correct characteristics are all visually memorized. Now purchase more known correct guns, again and again until you have a good collection. Still examining and memorizing as you go. By this time 10 to 20 years later, at a minimum, you too will be an expert and it will be difficult to fool you.
I have seen honest well know dealers sell ringers. As there eye sight starts to go, their not as able to see what they are buying themselves and do get caught with a bad gun. Once the word gets out, other dealers will try to load them up with crap and its a downward spiral. So don’t trust a well known honest dealer all the time.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
After 40 years of collecting, if a gun’s metal finish doesn’t look quite right, I still find myself smelling it. 🙂
This last weekend was my yearly opportunity to sit at the local show all three days. I enjoy it a lot and I always like to talk to the older guys that collect. I especially like talking to guys that have been collecting for 30-40 years but still are excited to learn and are excited about books and research. I also like to just listen to the conversations and learn a few of the old tricks to look out for. It’s also a good opportunity to see a lot of guns…both honest and not.
One gentleman I’ve known for a few years likes to tell me how George Madis "de-authenticated" a gun he wanted to buy a long time ago. He said Mr. Madis told him what was fake on it, why it was fake and who he thought did the faking. My friend paused at the end of the story and with a smile said, "he really knew his stuff".
Brad
George most certainly did know his stuff. He regularly made court appearances as an expert witness on guns. He knew all the kinds of the tricks of the trade for such misleading trickery. He also knew how to prove it in court through various methods.
People tend to forget that George’s father was a gun dealer for a living. George use to tell how when they were kids his father had up to something like 100 Henry Rifles in stock. And that when his father got 44 Henry ammo, if it was a full box he would keep it and re-sell it, but if it was only a partial box. He would give it to George and his siblings and they would run around shooting it up :shock:.
Usually the wood gives away all the secrets for me. Either the wood itself is not as it should be. Or the condition of the metal behind the wood is a give away. There shouldn’t be bluing inside of pitting underneath the wood.
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
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