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Is there any trustworthy information about how many model 65 rifles were barreled for caliber .218 Bee? Pirkle says about 1300 m.1892 rifles were chambered for this cartridge, but does that include model 65´s also, and is this an accurate estimation? Also, were the first Bees released on 1938 or ´39? Thanks in advance, hope someone (Bert?) can help me…
Hello Leverfan,
In my survey of the Model 1892 / 92 production I have cataloged 6,410 rifles and not come across one original rifle in .218 Bee.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
The 218 Bee cartridge was actually introduced in the year 1937 (coincident with the 219 Zipper for the Model 64). I am not of the opinion that the number listed in Art Pirkle’s book is a realistic or accurate count. Like Michael, I have been searching for an original Model 92 in 218 Bee for many years, and as of today, I have not yet found one. However, I have seen at least a dozen or so older Model 1892s that have a mail order 218 Bee barrel on them, but none of them in the correct serial number range (1,000,000+) .
In regards to the Model 65, I have a research survey in progress for them (for the past 4+ years), and thus far, I have surveyed a total of (271) Model 65 rifles with the following statistical breakdown;
25-20 WCF = 46
32 WCF = 79
218 Bee = 145
Standard Rifles = 248
Deluxe Rifles = 23
The Model 65 was introduced in early 1933, and was serialized in the Model 92 range. The serial numbers for the Model 65 began very near 1,000,000 (I have a very small number of them (4) that were assembled with serial numbers in the very high 980,000+ range). Additionally, I have (5) rifles with "37" marked 218 Bee barrels (982953, 1002356, 1002663, 1002957, and 1003226).
Based on my survey results thus far, the 218 Bee was/is the most common cartridge for the Model 65 at 53.5%. If you extrapolate that out over the listed Model 65 production total of 5,717, that would indicate that approximately 3,060 were made in that cartridge. That stated, I have very solid evidence that the actual production number for the Model 65 is in the 7,800 area.
I am currently writing a new article for WACA Collector magazine where I will clear up some of the myths and erroneous information published in the past about the Model 65, and in it, I it will provide the details of my research survey.
For anyone who owns a Model 65 and would like to have it included in the survey, please get in touch with me.
Last item… there are PR records for approximately the last 1,000 Model 65 serial numbers.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
A year or so ago, at a local show, a very knowledgeable Winchester collector brought 2 of his Winchester 1892 rifles in 218 Bee for me to look at. I was quite surprised to find both had model 65 barrels which someone had very nicely redone the address and marked them mod 92.
Thank you once again, gentlemen. You confirmed what I had thought myself about the number of m.92´s in .218 Bee – I personally think there are none. But I was surprised about the number of Bee-caliber m.65´s – here in Scandinavia they are always encountered in caliber 25-20, which I thought was the most common. I also knew that the real production number is greater than 5700, but it is always nice to have more accurate information – learning new things is always interesting. And Bert, my personal m.65 is already included in your survey.
As you encounter them in Finland, please take notes and then pass the information on to me. With the relatively low number of Model 65 Rifles manufactured, any of them found outside of the U.S. is helpful to the survey.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
If you come across any Model 1892 / 92 rifles I would likewise appreciate any information you can garner on them. The reference information in this link, once they get the Ask The Experts" forum back up and running will help. http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=606355
Thanks
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
January 26, 2011
Online
It seems the hybrid 1892/65 is in high demand, especially the ones made in 1908. Maybe this "Winshester" commands a premium because it is so "Beauyiful".
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=434678784
😯
~Gary~
pdog72 said
It seems the hybrid 1892/65 is in high demand, especially the ones made in 1908. Maybe this "Winshester" commands a premium because it is so "Beauyiful".http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=434678784
😯
At least the seller has not made any false Claims. I can’t beleave it’s this high!!
pdog72 said
It seems the hybrid 1892/65 is in high demand, especially the ones made in 1908. Maybe this "Winshester" commands a premium because it is so "Beauyiful".http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=434678784
😯
At least the seller has not made any false Claims. I can’t beleave it’s this high!!
The bidder probably works for the seller
Dears Gun Enthusiast’s
I have a Winchester model 1892 which is in the 218 bee caliber, I am not by no means a gun expert. This gun was my wife’s grandfathers which my mother-law told me she remembers shooting this gun as a small child, she is almost ninety which means it could have been made prior to 1930, but not sure when he bought it. I understand from research that a true model 1892 in the 218 bee caliber is very, very rare and many model 1892 where of larger caliber and that many had the barrels changed to the 218 bee caliber. The barrel is stamped with ” Winchester proof steel – model 92 – Winchester trade mark-218 Bee” on one side the other side is stamped “made in USA Winchester repeating arms co. New haven conn.” The barrel is stamped with a what looks like an oval with a w and p in it, this also matches the one on the receiver. The markings right behind the trigger is ” Model 1892- Winchester- trade mark reg in U.S. pat. off. ” underneath on the receiver is a stamped number “611095” this rifle has peep sights. It has very few blemishes and the bluing looks very good to me. It also has what looks like rings where a strap may have been attached. Could anyone share any info on how to tell if this could be one of the very rare model 1892 218 BEE. Thanks for your input.
Arthur Allen
Hello Arthur,
The serial number “611095” identifies it as a Model 1892 that was manufactured in the year 1911. Accordingly, the 218 Bee barrel now on it is not factory original. Sometime in or after 1937, the original barrel was removed and replaced with the current barrel. If you pull the magazine tube and forend stock, you should find a 2-digit year number stamped on the bottom of the barrel right next to where it screws into the receiver frame. That number will give you a better idea when it was installed.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I have owned four 92/218 Bees, all of them have been out of the correct serial range. The closest I have come is what I believe to be a factory rebarrel and stock replacement. It may be the best I find, but I am still looking.
attn.Bert H I purchased a model 65. 218 bee. S/n 1002637. is this possible
Leonard said
attn.Bert H I purchased a model 65. 218 bee. S/n 1002637. is this possible
It sure is possible. Does it have a Bolt-peep rear sight on it?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 26, 2011
Online
twobit said
Hello Leverfan,
In my survey of the Model 1892 / 92 production I have cataloged 6,410 rifles and not come across one original rifle in .218 Bee.
Michael
How in anyone’s right mind could they spend $20k on this gun……….even if they do think its a factory original M92 chambered in 218 Bee. Looks like a M92 receiver, 53 butt stock, with a 65 barrel and fore end and “92” stamped in place of the “65”. The numerals aren’t even the same size as the rest of the stamping.
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=7456&aid=92818&lid=23857704&rfpb=0#Top
Sure looks like a re-barreled 92 ………….. especially since the 218 Bee wasn’t introduced until 10 years later ……. hmmm, they sure could have bought quite a few nice factory original rifles with all that money. Am I missing something?
~Gary~
Somebody just paid a LOT of $$$$$ for a fake rifle!!! The buyer will hopefully realize his/her mistake and return it to Julia’s. I sometimes believe that many people put way too much trust in the auction house descriptions.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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